Some Afterthoughts To The Airbus A320 Germanwings Co-Pilot Suicide

[With His Victims] In the French Alps

Andreas Lubitz

Far from hating Andreas Lubitz as the media would wish in their portrayal of this individual -a deranged 'monster' - for the world to 'buy into', we should feel as sorry for him as for his victims – the unsuspecting crew and passengers who were chanced to be flying with him that particular day, for whatever reason, he decided to end his torment.

A picture is gradually emerging which is becoming clearer as each new piece of information unravels his personality.

Here we have someone who had a passion for flying from the time he was a teenager- probably earlier.  But he was, more than likely, also most certainly aware that, even at this time, he had a very dark secret.   It seems that he was able to both conceal and tame the mental demons and torment between his childhood and his death (together with those he 'wanted' to be with him – the 149 other victims) some 15 years later in the French Alps.  Only very careful investigation will reveal exactly how he was able to pull off this remarkable deception – and had both the intellect and charisma to eventually make his way into the cockpit of an airbus A320, without detection.

[The procedural issues I have covered previously so here I will just focus on the character.]

An assumption would be made that a brother or sister or other family members can always shed light on such prior disorders.  This is sometimes a fallacy.  You take your brother or sister or other relative 'for granted' unless the behavior is so out of range as to require medical support or hospitalization [let me use the phrase 'well he/she always was a bit weird but we assumed it was just part of his/her personality.']

[An assumption I am making here is that whatever his state of mind, it was, for a very long time, manageable and therefore could be segregated or compartmentalized.]

Likewise for friends.  Coupled with the fact that, for all intensive purposes, this was, apparently, a sociable and likeable individual, probably of high intellect, you could almost be forgiven for saying 'well, his behavior probably goes with the territory.'

I am not justifying mass murder only saying that, in our arrogance, we often think we can reduce everything to a simplistic equation and when things just don't add up, in frustration and anger, we just pull out the label of psychopath' or 'monster' or something similar.

[It's a corollary to the court or justice systems which are designed, worldwide, not to punish and teach, but to exact retribution on behalf of an angry society - often with political motivations and electoral votes as backdrop.]

Let me now change the subject and give you just one example of a rapid personality deterioration.

Not too long ago I met someone I had not seen for sometime.  It was immediately obvious to me that the psychopathology of this individual had altered considerably.

I am not talking about someone elderly but someone in her early 20s.   The red flags were very evident.  Fortunately this individual does not have any remarkable responsibilities which could endanger the mass safety of individuals but is, quite clearly a 'danger' to someone somewhere out there.  The 'danger' I am talking about is, more likely, a dysfunctional relationship with a partner which (most certainly) will end in separation or divorce.   But it's none of my business.   I don't know the individual so her personal life or circumstances are of no concern to me whatsoever.  [I only thanked my lucky stars that I initially sensed that something was wrong, several years ago, and kept myself at an observational (but respectful!) distance.]  Again, we can all pull someone out of the rabbit hat who 'fits the profile' of 'unstable' – but none are likely responsible for the lives of hundreds or thousands of people at any one time and if we went on [yet another!] 'witch hunt' – this time against all individuals who are suffering from some or other form of mental illness or depression or severe shock or high anxiety, or bad divorce or separation or high stress of some sort - we might just as well lock up one third to a half of all the country at some time in their lives and retire a quarter (or more) of all the civilian pilots currently flying airlines worldwide (!)

Will This Ever Happen Again? Most Certainly Yes - But Just Hope And (if you are religious) Pray It's Not On Your Holiday Flight (!)

Some Consolation Might Be That Your Chances Of Winning 'Powerball' Before This Happens Are Probably Greater (!)

You never quite know when an individual will 'go off the deep end' and there is no guarantee that a tragedy like this suicide and ' intentional' [or collateral] mass murder  (however you view it) by a delusional individual, will not happen again whether or not, as the popular mass media are neighing for, you put a third person - even armed with an Uzi - in the cockpit of every airplane to constantly monitor the 'good behavior' of the pilot, co-pilot and another one or two (just for good measure) to monitor the 'good behavior' of all the passengers (and perhaps, several undercover individuals authorized to carry SIG-Sauer P228s, as overall 'oversight') - whilst the plane is in-flight.



Epilog
29th March, 15:57 Pacific Daylight Time, 2015:
I have one final question:
When The Captain got up to go to the toilet, and Mr Lubitz was left alone, did he think he was still in a dream and that, this time, by crashing the plane ( instead of the many times in his dreams he did not) he would awake 'reborn' and 'free' of his torments - having confronted and 'slayed' his demons - or was he fully conscious of his 'place' in 'reality'?

©Patrick Emek, 2015

Mental Demons: (The answer is probably somewhere within ... but you may not like what you find...)

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrBT8eCmxVV7i0AMQ5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcmRsMDM5BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVklQNTYyXzEEc2VjA3Nj?p=Mental+Demons&fr=ytff1-

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Airbus A320 Germanwings Flight From Barcelona to Dusseldorf Crashes In The French Alps:

A Tragic Accident?

Firstly sincere condolences to Germanwings and to the families of the victims of this disaster.

When tragedy strikes so suddenly it is almost incomprehensible for relatives and colleagues.

The crash of Germanwings plane 4U 9525 with the loss of 150 souls - including 6 crew - is yet another air tragedy in Europe which has also come during a period of severe economic recession and cutbacks by many companies in Europe to save on time and costs. I will look at one particular aspect of such cutbacks, with regard to historical relevance, later on in this blog.

It should be remembered that the low-cost airlines are subject to the same rigorous safety checks as the scheduled airlines so in this regard, there is no difference.

Answers, however, must be found – and quickly – to re-assure the traveling public in Europe and beyond.

Suspicious

It is highly suspicious that maximum (or optimal) cruising altitude had just been achieved when the plane 'fell' from the sky. This suggests, to me, rapid depressurization.

If such has been the case it will be quickly identified by forensic examination of the remains of the victims prior to and independent of the black box data being analyzed. Such conclusions can at least be quickly passed on to other carriers worldwide to ensure awareness of any potential issues in general.

I want, in this particular case, to speculate on what could cause such a catastrophe.

The first thing which comes to mind is a door being opened – or not having been sealed properly.

Secondly is depressurization caused by a failure of seals protecting against such a catastrophe.

Thirdly a failure of composite materials (structural failure.)

There is the possibility of a computer failure or 'data reboot'.

There is the possibility of the deliberate crashing of the plane by the pilot or co-pilot.

Finally there is the possibility of terrorism.

I am discounting both terrorism and pilot suicide for the following reasons:

Lufthansa's reputation in this regard is second to none.

The last place a terrorist would want to crash a plane would be in an inaccessibe region remote from public relations (world media) accessibility.

While we certainly do not know the circumstances of the pilot nor co-pilot I am also ruling out pilot error or suicide.

This leave the one option I am highly suspicious about.

A plane reaching optimal cruising altitude and immediately falling from the sky suggests to myself rapid depressurization caused either by a failure of seals designed to prevent such a thing from happening or, alternatively, a door not having been closed properly.

The other possibility is something in the cargo hold – such as pressurized material or canisters.

There have been cases in the past where supposedly 'empty' cylinders were in fact not completely empty or where a change in pressure in sealed environments caused such or similar items to 'burst' – with a 'force' similar to a mini-bomb or high speed bullet being released causing a rupture in the cargo hold area – thereby affecting the structural integrity of the plane.

[I had thought that all such issues had long ago been resolved through the strengtening of such hold areas and also with very strict procedures in place to prevent such occurrences or indeed in the event of such a catastrophe, that the damage would be minimized by the procedural packing and placement of such items.]

Materials Integrity Failure

There is always the possibility of composite failure or lack of proper maintenance. Again I trust European and German technology as I would American or British more than most others worldwide because of the very rigorous emphasis on safety and procedures - with oversight systems constantly monitored and updated where and when critical issues or potential problems become apparent.

By this I also mean that the design technology is unlikely to have been the cause of the disaster.

All the major indigenous Airlines I can think of – whether in Africa, The Middle East, Asia, Europe or the Americas have excellent maintenance and pilot safety records so again the likelihood of pilot error becomes as highly remote as maintenance failure.

There is, however, the classic prior accidents scenario whereby 'replacement parts' for airlines were not to a fit standard or were, through a bizarre chain of events, not calibrated or fault tested or even failed on the production line but such integrity issues were never picked up through fault analysis so sucvh went on to be then inserted as support or parts into an airline structure, and, after some period of time, failed – thereby causing the sections they were supporting to tear apart or break loose.

Lessons To Be Learnt

The one fact that this tragedy does again remind us of – and I have said this before – is the need tio get rid of this archaic 'black box' system and opt for real time tracking and systems monitoring.

I will not repeat what I have said before (in earlier blogs at this site) other than to add that with each tragic loss of life, as happened here, this will hopefully focus carriers (the airline industry) minds more urgently on this particular 'upgrade'.

Update at 19:47 March 25, Pacific Daylight Time:

Don't Completely Rule Out Suicide:
There is a News Report that either the pilot or co-pilot found himself locked out of the cockpit.
This itself is confusing for several reasons.  The first is because both are trained to fly the plane and unless both found themselves locked out of the cockpit (which would be a horrendous situation apart from a breach of every rule in the book of civil aviation where only the Captain and Co-pilot are in-house) this, in itself, is not a full-scale emergency, unfortunate as it may be.  Secondly there is a further report that rapid depressurization was not involved - which rules out failed seals on windows, doors or other catastrophic failures which would cause such to occur.
[This does not rule out other catastrophic failures causing the structural integrity to become unstable.]
Then there are now (if any credibility exists in this recent speculation) other issues to look at such as food poisoning or other unforseen in-flight illness - but even as such by putting the plane on autopilot as it was at optimal cruising height - there should have been more than time to issue a distress call.  This in itself is not a full-scale emergency - as distressing as it may be.  Again it is difficult to imagine that both the pilot and co-pilot would both have left their posts (or have taken ill) simultaneously for such reasons then to find themselves both locked out of the cockpit whilst being attended to.
It's not inconceivable that someone was taken seriously ill, being attended outside the cockpit and the second, unthinking, went to see how his colleague was coping, both to find themselves unable to get back inside.  If this eventually turns out to be the case then a major review of procedures and access will be required.

Suicide - And It's Implications:
All other things considered, should this tragedy turn out to be either the result of human error or intentional murder (a suicide) it still leaves the issue of access procedures and  security wide open and would suggest (at least to myself) that more careful thought needs to be applied to cockpit access in an era of terrorism where the balance between safety, accessibility and security all need to be carefully balanced for confidence in air travel to be maintained at the high level it is today. 
Therefore, in the light of new information available, I am assuming that as part of the process of thorough investigation, the relevant authorities are looking carefully into the background of both the Captain and Co-pilot to see if there are any relevant motivating factors which could have caused one or the other to behave irrationally or just one or the other, having an exceptionally bad day.    It is now accepted that the initial report of the airplane 'falling from the sky' was inaccurate.  It apparently descended (under control) and flew, at full speed, right into the French Alps.     [So much for routine psychological profiling and spot tests!]

©Patrick Emek, 2015

Reference:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/germanwings-plane-crash-a320-pilot-says-copilot-can-be-locked-out-of-cockpit-20150326-1m82vb.html 

Coup d'Etat in Nigeria?

Rumors are rife that the army in conjunction with corrupt Governors, Officials and the Business community are planning a military coup to prevent General Muhammadu Buhari from sweeping to power by popular democratic choice in this months forthcoming General Election.

Reasons for The Coup

Should this happen, do not believe a word of what your mainstream media will tell you.  Plans are already in place to say that it was because of the chaos caused by Boko Haram and the need for a firm military response that the country has been put under 'temporary' Martial Law.

The Real Reasons For The Coup - Should It Take Place

General Buhari is a widely respected politician.   Nigeria's equivalent of America's Eliot Ness (The G-Men) – Buhari is incorruptible and the only politician standing in this month's election untainted by scandal of one sort or another.  He is neither beholden to the Army nor to the business community – both of which have corruptly benefited enormously under President Goodluck Jonathan.

Jonathan himself is not seen as the real objective of the military coup – why should they oust someone who has not attempted to tackle corruption?; but more to the fact that it would be seen as a 'popular' move to 'depose' (and I use this word loosely) Jonathan, blame his administration for the corruption, political chaos and anarchy created by Boko Haram and send him into exile so that he can be 'out of the way' of public opprobrium.

The 'G-Man'

Buhari is very serious in tackling corruption and this is not going down well amongst the corrupt elite which have, almost without interruption - except during the Biafra War years and those of General Buhari as Leader of the Country – rifled Nigeria of it's wealth (oil and gas) and left it and it's people as a broken and empty shell.

The gap between wealth and poverty in Nigeria is probably on the same scale as the disenfranchisement of the African-Brazilian population. [Over 87% of Brazil's African-Brazilian population are totally disenfranchised from political, economic and social prosperity by a form of Apartheid which makes South Africa under Apartheid look benevolent in comparison.  But Brazil is not the objective of this blog so you should research this for yourself elsewhere.]

Military Coup? What Coup?

The Generals plotting the coup are mainly Northerners – but they have cross-party links with the Governors of States outside the North who will, at least, not speak out against the planned Coup – should it happen.

There will be some media-publicized moves to 'tackle corruption' – the usual window-dressing.  [A pig with lipstick is, however, still a pig with lipstick!)

'Temporary' Martial Law

Even President Jonathan 'knows' who the potential 'plotters' are.  He is, however, powerless to act – should they decide to sieze power – as the loyalty of all Senior Northern commanders is not guaranteed 'in stone' – but only on paper.

Objectives Of The Plotters

The objective of a military coup -should it kibosh the General Election - is simply to prevent Buhari from becoming President.   By the time Martial Law is lifted it is assumed that he willl be 'too old' and 'too ineffectual' to be a 'viable' Presidential candidate for selection nor for the Nigerian electorate.   President Jonathan has been so ineffectual that he is not a 'political threat' to anyone and will 'go quietly'.

Interests Of The West Are Guaranteed

As I understand it, there will be no change in Nigeria's policy with regard to oil and gas – so it's business as usual.

As I see it, the country could go on a more 'pro-Arab' path.   There has been increasing antiSemitism over the past decade – fueled in part by hate-mongers and in part by what is perceived as injustice to the Palestinians – fellow Muslim brothers 'suffering' under a system which many Nigerians - especially in the Muslim North - compare with the system of Apartheid in South Africa until it's visible dismantling (but the psychological scars left will probably take hundreds of years to eradicate.)  This is not my view but it is one publicly (and privately) shared by the majority of people in Nigeria – Africa's most populous country - and the new military leadership will lose no time 'capitalizing'' on this 'popular' sentiment to the fullest.   It will also be another convenient distraction from the more pressing problems – such as tackling widespread corruption and wealth redistribution to the disenfranchised who constitute 90% of Nigeria's population.

Nearly 60% of Nigeria's Youth population are without work and without hope for the future. Any distractions are better than having to tackle these issues.

Sadly the vast majority of Nigerians are not educated to understand that by disenfranchising their own population from education economic and social development, they are holding back the country's potential to compete globally – in much the same way that Muslim countries such as Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia by not empowering women are thus utilizing only a small fraction of the country's total potential in a globalized interconnected and interdependent world.

From the West's Perspective

Should a military coup take place, it will be a disappointment – especially in the United Kingdom, the former colonial power, which genuinely wants to see Nigeria develop and prosper for all it's citizens but has taken a back seat since the problems of tackling endemic corruption in the country are such as to make any vocal foreign statements into local Nigerian domestic politics, however benign, a lost, hopeless and a thankless cause.

I have met with former Colonial Officers who served in Nigeria and were very deeply attached to a country whose people they came to love and respect.   Most are now deceased but it broke their hearts to see the potential of what could have been a great country and beacon of development and prosperity for all on the African continent, squandered.

So Britain, The United States and Europe will express 'regret' - should such a scenario unfold.    But that is about all that will happen.   Life will continue as it always has for the impoverished and dispossessed and Nigeria will, yet again, through ignorance, have missed a golden opportunity to move into a new era of shared future prosperity and wealth redistribution, with a visionary leader taking it there, for yet another few decades or even longer.

©Patrick Emek, March 09,2015

References 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammadu_Buhari

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Ness

MH-17:

Unanswered Questions

The information included here is not meant to encourage a rush to judgement.

It is however, with the victims and their grieving families in mind, all desperate for answers, that I have included omitted deleted or redacted data in the belief that many of you will not have had access to some (if not all) of it.

I knew nobody on this flight but have many times traversed the flight path en route to elsewhere.

If it had been myself who was a victim, I would be grateful that there were individuals out there still thinking about me, even though none knew me, and were attempting to find answers for my grieving loved ones and relatives – if I had any.   if I had none, likewise grateful that such were just seeking answers as to why I and my fellow passengers so tragically (and in an instant) ceased to exist.

Is it a foregone conclusion that we know the answers? Certainly not.

Is it a foregone conclusion that foul play was involved? Certainly yes.

Was this premeditated mass murder or just a terrible accident? To date there is no conclusive proof either way.

Do we know for certain who is to blame? Investigations are still in progress and until the experts have given their majority (and possibly dissenting) opinions (and perhaps those views will also be challenged) nobody can (nor should) offer any conclusive judgements

I am including video material showing what appears to be a commercial/civilian airliner (in the background) falling from the sky.

I have neither verified the 3-D topography, contours nor other details required to give proper identification but have included the material for anyone who might shed further light on it.

I am working on the assumption that this is neither faked nor edited but just normal raw footage. My basis for this is what I would expect to find as an extract in a modern fighter aircraft recording in real time.

The weather conditions at the exact time (of the presumed tragedy included here) appear to be slightly overcast maybe with light drizzle and certainly not a clear sky.  The topological layout (in a 3-D setting) is not a difficult problem to resolve.  There would appear to be two fighter/military aircraft in the immediate vicinity.  This is in keeping with the report which I had at that time of the tragedy about there being 2 fighter aircraft in the vicinity and which you will find in an earlier blog last year.  I was never able to confirm from a second independent source the presence of 2 fighter aircraft (and I said this in my blog at the time of the incident last year.)  I believe I was either the only or one of two individuals in the world to be confirming two fighter aircraft in the vicinity of the incident.  Even Russian military reports on State News Channels were only talking about one military fighter being seen in the immediate vicinity at the time of the tragedy.  Other Russian Federation news channels were likewise referring to the possible presence of one fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of the incident.
This video footage below appears to now vindicate my single source of information at the time of the incident last year.

A Personal Note

BBC Deletion of Evidential Material From It's Website

The BBC  explains why it removed a Report by Ms. Olga Ivshina from it's website.  You will find their public reasons when you attempt to access the deleted material.

In such circumstances as exist, the deletion of  information which could assist with a case where mass murder is suspected, the reputation of the BBC, as a credible new source, may very well suffer long-term irreparable damage in many parts of the world.  It's not the issue of 'fair and balanced' coverage but because we are talking about a potential War Crime, all evidential information which is credible should be available for examination - not just 'on demand' - but as a public record.

I saw nothing in Ms. Olga Ivshina's Report which suggested conscious or unconscious bias.  Quite the opposite, from what I viewed, Ms Ivshina went out of her way to attempt to cover, as best she could, the reported incident, from all sides.

 

Patrick Emek                                             

                                                                            

If you do not believe the BBC's explanation of why it removed material from it's website and want alternative viewpoints, you will find them at: 

  http://www.globalresearch.ca/deleted-bbc-report-ukrainian-fighter-jet-shot-down-mhi7-donetsk-eyewitnesses/5393631

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/11/western-news-suppression-downing-mh-17-malaysian-jet.html

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=18e_1418590601

The deleted/censored BBC/Ivshina MH17 Report with English subtitles: https://vimeo.com/111325917

   

  There Were 2 Military Aircraft Present In this Extract Below

   The video extract below is not BBC copyright footage.

If anyone cares to claim it as their copyright material, please let me know.

1.Source: Anonymous Sender 

 

©Patrick Emek, 2015

Grammatical corrections on 8th March, 2015

if you cannot view it at this site type the following You Tube entry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4r1bvWtObo


2.Sent with the message:

''Please let the relatives of the victims know that these stories are not true.''
I am including the video – without any further comment.

2. Source:Anonymous Sender

Additional References

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/blogs/2014/07/140724_blog_editors_bbc_story_rework.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/multimedia/2014/07/140722_v_mh17_buk_hunt.shtml 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=18e_1418590601

 Also from external sources:

vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.es 
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-catastrophe-of-mh17-bbc-in-search.html
The Catastrophe of #MH17: BBC in the Search of the “#BUK” –
The Video Report Censored by BBC
Translated from Russian by Gleb Bazov
Note: Videos & a PDF of the Google Web-cache Have Been Preserved and Are Available Upon Request Preamble: Why did the BBC delete this report by Olga Ivshina? Is it because the BBC team was unable to find any evidence that a rocket was launched in the area that the Ukrainian Security Service (“SBU”) alleges to be the place from which the Novorossiya Militia launched a “BUK” missile?  Or is it because every eyewitness interviewed by the BBC team specifically indicated the presence of Ukrainian military aircraft right beside the Malaysian Airlines Boeing MH17 at the time that it was shot down?  Or is it because of eyewitness accounts (like the one posted following the transcript of the BBC report) confirming that the Ukrainian air force regularly used civilian aircraft flying over Novorossiya as human shields to protect its military aircraft conducting strikes against civilian population from the Militia’s anti-aircraft units?
I reserve the final judgment to the readers of this blog. This entry is broken down into:
1. introductory paragraphs to the BBC video report;
2. English-language transcript of the BBC video report; and,
3. a video interview with Elena, a Militia fighter, recorded in Slavyansk on or about June 18, 2014, or one
month prior to the MH17 catastrophe, wherein she states that, even then, the Ukrainian military aircraft would customarily hide behind civilian aircraft to bomb civilian targets on the ground.
In the last part of this entry Elena predicts that the Ukrainian military will stage the horrible catastrophe like the MH17 crash - she makes this prediction one whole month prior to the disaster.
Video: The Catastrophe of #MH17: #BBC in the Search of the “#BUK”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8sjMWhl-4
Original BBC Video Report: Preserved by Google Web-cache
Introductory Paragraphs to the BBC Video Report
The “black boxes” of the crashed Malaysian Boeing have finally been transferred into the hands of the experts.
However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.
The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from Russia.
The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a “BUK” missile.
BBC reporter Olga Ivshina and producer Oksana Vozhdayeva decided to find the place from which the missile was allegedly launched.
Transcript of the BBC Video Report DPR Representative: Here it is.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The black boxes from the crashed Boeing are finally being transferred into the hands of the experts. However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.
The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …
Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.
Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.
Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from the direction of Russia.
Vitaliy Naida, Department of Counterintelligence of SBU [Ukrainian Security Service]: This was a BUK M1 system from which the aircraft was shot down. It came to Ukraine early in the morning on the 17th of July. It was delivered by a tow truck to the city of Donetsk. After that, it was redeployed from Donetsk, as part of a column of military equipment, to the area of the city of Torez, to the area of Snezhnoye, to the area of Pervomaisk.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a “BUK” missile. We attempted to verify these photographs and information at the location.
One of the photographs showed a landscape not far from the city of Torez, on which smoke could be seen coming from the presumed location of the missile’s launch. We attempted to find this location, and it appears that we were successful.
We are now on the outskirts of the city of Torez. Behind me, approximately five kilometres away, is the city of Snezhnoye. And the landscape here matches the landscape that we can see on the photograph published by the Ukrainian Security Service.
To find the place from which the smoke was allegedly coming from, we adopted as markers these three poplars and the group of trees. Presumably, this is the place that can be seen on the photograph published by the SBU.
And here are our markers: the three solitary poplars and the small group of trees in the distance.
The smoke that can be seen on the photograph came from somewhere over there [pointing behind her], behind my back. The SBU believes that this is a trace coming from the launch of a “BUK” missile.
However, it must be noted that there are here, approximately in the same place, the Saur-Mogila memorial, near which the fighting continues almost unabated, and a coalmine. It turns out that the smoke with the same degree of probability could have been coming from any of these locations.
Having circled around the nearby fields, we were unable to find any traces of a missile launch. Nor did the local inhabitants that we encountered see any “BUK” either.
At the ruins of an apartment building in the city of Snezhnoye, the topic of the jet fighters that may have been escorting civilian aircraft comes up again. A bomb dropped from above took away the lives of eleven civilians here.
Sergey Godovanets, Commander of the Militia of the city of Snezhnoye: They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them. It is only now that they stopped flying over us – but, usually, civilian aircraft would always fly above
us. And they hide [behind them]. [The experience in] Slavyansk had demonstrated that they would fly out from behind a civilian aircraft, bomb away, and then hide, once again, behind the civilian aircraft and fly away.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The commander of the local militia emphasizes that they have no weaponry capable of shooting down a jet fighter [flying] at a significant height. However, he says that if such weaponry were to appear,
they would have tried to.
Sergey Godovanets: If we know that it is not a civilian aircraft, but a military one, then – yes.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: So, could the Boeing have been shot down by the militias that had mistaken it for a military aircraft? There is as yet no unequivocal confirmation of either this or any other version [of what took place]. The international experts are just beginning their work with the information obtained from the crashed airliner. It now appears that it is difficult to overstate the importance of this investigation. Olga Ivshina, BBC.
Militia Elena: Ukrainian Military Planes Hide Behind Civilian Airliners
Video: Recorded at least one month prior to MH17 Crash, published with ENG subs on June 18, 2014
Note: Pay close attention starting at 01:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE 
(this reference has now been deleted by You Tube) 


an alternative explanation can be found at:

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Talk:Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 


External Material (extract) available from other sources (August 2nd 2014)
Photograph of Mh -17 Cockpit.
Website reference:
https://ronaldwederfoort.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/cis-the-plane-mh-17-was-brought-down-by-machine-gun-fire-from-the-right-and-above/

                                   Image above may be subject to copyright





                                Image above may be subject to copyright

Please visit the website below where both of the above images appear and are explained further.


https://ronaldwederfoort.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/cis-the-plane-mh-17-was-brought-down-by-machine-gun-fire-from-the-right-and-above/


How the deleted BBC video runs in timeframe snapshots (extracted):

1
00:00:01,699 --> 00:00:03,810
 black boxes of crashed Boeing

2
00:00:03,081 --> 00:00:05,156
 finally passes here and experts

3
00:00:06,056 --> 00:00:09,255
 Well, how much they can tell

4
00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:09,845
 recorders recorded

5
00:00:10,619 --> 00:00:12,687
 Plane coordinates and chickens at the moment

6
00:00:13,299 --> 00:00:13,388
 incident

7
00:00:14,189 --> 00:00:16,730
 and the sound of an explosion could be preserved

8
00:00:16,073 --> 00:00:18,089
 but they do not tell you what exactly was

9
00:00:18,089 --> 00:00:20,608
 part of this explosion

10
00:00:21,409 --> 00:00:23,422
 nearby villages assures that

11
00:00:23,539 --> 00:00:25,587
 seen in the sky shortly before warplanes

12
00:00:26,019 --> 00:00:27,034
 Catastrophe

13
00:00:27,169 --> 00:00:29,213
 namely fighters in their opinion could

14
00:00:29,609 --> 00:00:31,130
 knock boeing

15
00:00:31,013 --> 00:00:33,052
 two explosions was in the air this is now

16
00:00:33,052 --> 00:00:34,150
 as he was torn

17
00:00:35,005 --> 00:00:36,094
 And so when positive on both sides

18
00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:40,092
 elena plane military pressure as they

19
00:00:40,092 --> 00:00:41,151
 because nothing was to be seen

20
00:00:42,051 --> 00:00:45,070
 recently did that and that passenger

21
00:00:45,007 --> 00:00:46,046
 but the result

22
00:00:47,009 --> 00:00:49,048
 at the time of arrest of the book so

23
00:00:49,048 --> 00:00:51,079
 Tatra affected aircraft

24
00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:53,082
 changed the trajectory of all that flew

25
00:00:54,009 --> 00:00:55,101
 in the wrong direction

26
00:00:56,001 --> 00:00:58,730
 Ukrainian authorities rejected this version

27
00:00:58,739 --> 00:00:59,803
 they consider that the fight he was hit by a missile

28
00:01:00,379 --> 00:01:02,424
 complex beech arrived by

29
00:01:02,829 --> 00:01:04,680
 Russia this system

30
00:01:04,068 --> 00:01:05,069
 beech m1

31
00:01:05,078 --> 00:01:07,080
 which was hit by a plane

32
00:01:07,008 --> 00:01:12,012
 arrived in Ukraine in science and the pig

33
00:01:13,002 --> 00:01:15,053
 she was taken to attacking the city

34
00:01:15,071 --> 00:01:15,166
 Minsk

35
00:01:16,066 --> 00:01:17,120
 was then

36
00:01:18,002 --> 00:01:20,026
 I relocated from Donetsk comprising

37
00:01:20,044 --> 00:01:21,136
 column of military equipment

38
00:01:22,036 --> 00:01:25,097
 in this area Torez it accurately

39
00:01:25,097 --> 00:01:27,186
 for snow in an interview marca

40
00:01:28,086 --> 00:01:30,104
 Security Service of Ukraine published

41
00:01:31,004 --> 00:01:33,011
 pictures and videos in her opinion proves

42
00:01:33,074 --> 00:01:33,150
 that boeing

43
00:01:34,005 --> 00:01:36,028
 was hit by a missile loaf

44
00:01:36,073 --> 00:01:37,092
 we will try to

45
00:01:37,092 --> 00:01:40,110
 check out these pictures and data on areas

46
00:01:41,001 --> 00:01:42,017
 one of the photographs was

47
00:01:42,026 --> 00:01:43,077
 shows sales close

48
00:01:43,077 --> 00:01:45,154
 from the city to try which was visible smoke

49
00:01:46,054 --> 00:01:48,089
 with the site of the alleged missile launch

50
00:01:48,089 --> 00:01:49,172
 we tried to find this place and it seems

51
00:01:50,072 --> 00:01:52,127
 we succeeded, we are on the edge

52
00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:55,051
 Tarasov city behind my back about

53
00:01:55,051 --> 00:01:57,090
 five kilometers of snow and city

54
00:01:57,009 --> 00:01:59,026
 terrain here coincide

55
00:02:00,007 --> 00:02:01,069
 terrain that we see in

56
00:02:01,069 --> 00:02:02,145
 Photo released

57
00:02:03,045 --> 00:02:04,144
 Security Service of Ukraine

58
00:02:05,044 --> 00:02:06,047
 to find a place from which

59
00:02:06,074 --> 00:02:07,170
 presumably came smoke

60
00:02:08,007 --> 00:02:10,064
 we took these three benchmarks for their poplar

61
00:02:11,027 --> 00:02:15,706
 clump

62
00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:17,025
 but presumably it instead

63
00:02:17,709 --> 00:02:20,090
 which can be seen on the horizon Photo

64
00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:22,648
 sbu released and here at our benchmarks

65
00:02:22,729 --> 00:02:23,824
 three singles that Poles and loud

66
00:02:24,679 --> 00:02:25,728
 tree in Belek

67
00:02:26,169 --> 00:02:27,264
 smoke that can be seen in the photo went

68
00:02:28,119 --> 00:02:31,125
 from somewhere out from behind my back huts ii

69
00:02:31,179 --> 00:02:33,188
 that this medium gives Oscar rocket book but

70
00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:35,171
 Here it should be noted that this approximately

71
00:02:35,999 --> 00:02:38,008
 this place is a memorial

72
00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:39,175
 ALOR tomb complex near which

73
00:02:39,949 --> 00:02:41,967
 there are constant fights its coal mine

74
00:02:42,129 --> 00:02:44,138
 smoke could easily obtained degree

75
00:02:45,029 --> 00:02:48,107
 likely outcome of any of these locations

76
00:02:48,809 --> 00:02:49,898
 circled the nearby fields

77
00:02:50,699 --> 00:02:52,715
 traces rocket launch us find

78
00:02:52,859 --> 00:02:53,886
 failed

79
00:02:54,129 --> 00:02:55,224
 not seen the letter met us

80
00:02:56,079 --> 00:02:59,083
 locals

81
00:02:59,119 --> 00:03:01,177
 on the ruins of Strezhevoi threads

82
00:03:01,699 --> 00:03:02,751
 fighters may

83
00:03:03,219 --> 00:03:05,360
 accompanying contact ports

84
00:03:05,036 --> 00:03:06,885
 and a half years

85
00:03:07,209 --> 00:03:09,241
 requested a bomb claimed the top here

86
00:03:09,529 --> 00:03:11,548
 life is one of six people

87
00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:13,781
 they are covered by these

88
00:03:14,339 --> 00:03:15,421
 civilian aircraft fly and sometimes

89
00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:18,159
 it stopped flying civilian prime minister

90
00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:20,168
 Ballet

91
00:03:20,249 --> 00:03:22,318
 I do not hide the fact that it is a little more time

92
00:03:22,939 --> 00:03:24,940
 they showed that the interest for

93
00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:27,047
 civil flying bombs hidden again

94
00:03:27,119 --> 00:03:28,148
 Civil Rights

95
00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,423
 commander of the local militia

96
00:03:29,549 --> 00:03:32,120
 emphasize that they have no weapons

97
00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,017
 able to really knock

98
00:03:33,062 --> 00:03:34,501
 high altitude

99
00:03:35,059 --> 00:03:37,064
 but says that if such weapons each

100
00:03:37,109 --> 00:03:39,113
 appeared they would have tried to

101
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:41,513
 any mistake not civil turnover

102
00:03:41,909 --> 00:03:43,981
 weapons

103
00:03:44,629 --> 00:03:46,671
 so could anyone could be brought down by militias

104
00:03:47,049 --> 00:03:48,143
 who mistook his

105
00:03:48,989 --> 00:03:50,056
 for combat aircraft

106
00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:51,754
 unambiguous confirmation of this and

107
00:03:52,609 --> 00:03:54,623
 or other versions yet

108
00:03:54,749 --> 00:03:55,834
 international experts only

109
00:03:56,599 --> 00:03:58,627
 starts with the data of crashed

110
00:03:58,879 --> 00:03:59,885
 liner

111
00:03:59,939 --> 00:04:02,400
 significance of this investigation now

112
00:04:02,004 --> 00:04:02,903
 it seems

113
00:04:03,299 --> 00:04:05,325
 difficult to overestimate

114
00:04:05,559 --> 00:04:06,618
 reduced 900

1
00:00:01,699 --> 00:00:03,810
черные ящики
разбившегося боинга

2
00:00:03,081 --> 00:00:05,156
наконец передает вот
и экспертов

3
00:00:06,056 --> 00:00:09,255
ну как много они могут
рассказать

4
00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:09,845
самописцы
зафиксировали

5
00:00:10,619 --> 00:00:12,687
координаты и кур
самолета на момент

6
00:00:13,299 --> 00:00:13,388
инцидента

7
00:00:14,189 --> 00:00:16,730
и могли сохраниться
звук взрыва

8
00:00:16,073 --> 00:00:18,089
но они не расскажут
чем в точности был

9
00:00:18,089 --> 00:00:20,608
вызван этот взрыв

10
00:00:21,409 --> 00:00:23,422
жители близлежащих
сёл уверяет что

11
00:00:23,539 --> 00:00:25,587
видели в небе боевые
самолеты незадолго до

12
00:00:26,019 --> 00:00:27,034
катастрофы

13
00:00:27,169 --> 00:00:29,213
именно истребителей
по их мнению могли

14
00:00:29,609 --> 00:00:31,130
сбить boeing

15
00:00:31,013 --> 00:00:33,052
два взрыва была в
воздухе вот это вот

16
00:00:33,052 --> 00:00:34,150
как он разрывался

17
00:00:35,005 --> 00:00:36,094
так вот когда
позитива по сторонам

18
00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:40,092
елена самолет военное
давление они же

19
00:00:40,092 --> 00:00:41,151
ничего потому что
было видно было

20
00:00:42,051 --> 00:00:45,070
недавние сделали что
пассажирского и что

21
00:00:45,007 --> 00:00:46,046
но результат

22
00:00:47,009 --> 00:00:49,048
на момент задержания
книги поэтому от

23
00:00:49,048 --> 00:00:51,079
самолета татре
сказался

24
00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:53,082
поменял траекторию
полета все что летело

25
00:00:54,009 --> 00:00:55,101
в ту сторону

26
00:00:56,001 --> 00:00:58,730
власти украины
отвергает эту версию

27
00:00:58,739 --> 00:00:59,803
они считают что бой он
был сбит ракетой

28
00:01:00,379 --> 00:01:02,424
комплекса бук
прибывшего со стороны

29
00:01:02,829 --> 00:01:04,680
россии эта система

30
00:01:04,068 --> 00:01:05,069
бук м1

31
00:01:05,078 --> 00:01:07,080
в которую был сбит
самолет

32
00:01:07,008 --> 00:01:12,012
прибыла в украину к
наукам и свиноводства

33
00:01:13,002 --> 00:01:15,053
она была доставлена
нападающие город

34
00:01:15,071 --> 00:01:15,166
минск

35
00:01:16,066 --> 00:01:17,120
после этого было

36
00:01:18,002 --> 00:01:20,026
я передислоцирована
из донецка в составе

37
00:01:20,044 --> 00:01:21,136
колонны военной
техники

38
00:01:22,036 --> 00:01:25,097
в этот район города
торез в нем точно

39
00:01:25,097 --> 00:01:27,186
за снежного в
интервью marca

40
00:01:28,086 --> 00:01:30,104
служба безопасности
украины обнародовала

41
00:01:31,004 --> 00:01:33,011
снимки и видео по ее
мнению доказывающий

42
00:01:33,074 --> 00:01:33,150
что boeing

43
00:01:34,005 --> 00:01:36,028
был сбит ракетой
булку

44
00:01:36,073 --> 00:01:37,092
мы постараемся

45
00:01:37,092 --> 00:01:40,110
проверить эти снимки
и данные на местности

46
00:01:41,001 --> 00:01:42,017
на одной из
фотографий был

47
00:01:42,026 --> 00:01:43,077
изображен продаж
недалеко

48
00:01:43,077 --> 00:01:45,154
от города стараюсь на
котором был виден дым

49
00:01:46,054 --> 00:01:48,089
с места предполагала
пуска ракеты

50
00:01:48,089 --> 00:01:49,172
мы постарались найти
это место и кажется

51
00:01:50,072 --> 00:01:52,127
это нам удалось мы
находимся на окраине

52
00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:55,051
города тарасов за
моей спиной примерно

53
00:01:55,051 --> 00:01:57,090
в пяти километрах
город снежного и

54
00:01:57,009 --> 00:01:59,026
рельеф местности
здесь совпадают

55
00:02:00,007 --> 00:02:01,069
рельеф местности
который мы видим на

56
00:02:01,069 --> 00:02:02,145
фотографии
обнародованные

57
00:02:03,045 --> 00:02:04,144
службы безопасности
украины

58
00:02:05,044 --> 00:02:06,047
чтобы найти место с
которого

59
00:02:06,074 --> 00:02:07,170
предположительно
исходила дым

60
00:02:08,007 --> 00:02:10,064
мы взяли за ориентиры
эти три тополя их

61
00:02:11,027 --> 00:02:15,706
группу деревья

62
00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:17,025
предположительно а
вот она вместо

63
00:02:17,709 --> 00:02:20,090
которой видно на
горизонте фотографии

64
00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:22,648
обнародованные сбу а
вот у наши ориентиры

65
00:02:22,729 --> 00:02:23,824
три одиночных то
поляки и громко

66
00:02:24,679 --> 00:02:25,728
дереве в белеке

67
00:02:26,169 --> 00:02:27,264
дым который видно на
фотографии сходила

68
00:02:28,119 --> 00:02:31,125
откуда то оттуда из за
моей спины избушек ii

69
00:02:31,179 --> 00:02:33,188
что это сред отдав
оскара ракета book но

70
00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:35,171
нужно отметить что
здесь примерно в этом

71
00:02:35,999 --> 00:02:38,008
же месте находится
мемориальный

72
00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:39,175
комплекс алор могила
около которого

73
00:02:39,949 --> 00:02:41,967
постоянно идут бои ее
угольная шахта

74
00:02:42,129 --> 00:02:44,138
получается дым мог
спокойно степени

75
00:02:45,029 --> 00:02:48,107
вероятности исходить
из любого из этих мест

76
00:02:48,809 --> 00:02:49,898
покружив по
близлежащим полям

77
00:02:50,699 --> 00:02:52,715
следов запуска ракеты
нам найти

78
00:02:52,859 --> 00:02:53,886
не удалось

79
00:02:54,129 --> 00:02:55,224
не видели букве
встреченные нами

80
00:02:56,079 --> 00:02:59,083
местные жители

81
00:02:59,119 --> 00:03:01,177
на развалинах того в
городе стрежевой темы

82
00:03:01,699 --> 00:03:02,751
истребителей
возможно

83
00:03:03,219 --> 00:03:05,360
сопровождавшие
контакте порты

84
00:03:05,036 --> 00:03:06,885
с половиной года

85
00:03:07,209 --> 00:03:09,241
запрошенная сверху
бомба унесла здесь

86
00:03:09,529 --> 00:03:11,548
жизни один из шести
человек

87
00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:13,781
они прикрываются
этими

88
00:03:14,339 --> 00:03:15,421
гражданские самолеты
летают и подчас

89
00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:18,159
перестали летать это
гражданских премьера

90
00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:20,168
балета

91
00:03:20,249 --> 00:03:22,318
я не прятать мало того
что это еще раз

92
00:03:22,939 --> 00:03:24,940
показал что они
проценты за

93
00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:27,047
гражданского летали
бомбили опять прятали

94
00:03:27,119 --> 00:03:28,148
за гражданские права

95
00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,423
командир местных
ополченцев

96
00:03:29,549 --> 00:03:32,120
подчеркивать что у
них нет оружия

97
00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,017
способного сбить
действительно

98
00:03:33,062 --> 00:03:34,501
большой высоте

99
00:03:35,059 --> 00:03:37,064
но говорит что если бы
такое оружие друг

100
00:03:37,109 --> 00:03:39,113
появилось они бы
попытались

101
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:41,513
ведь любая ошибка не
гражданский оборот

102
00:03:41,909 --> 00:03:43,981
оружия

103
00:03:44,629 --> 00:03:46,671
так мог любой мог быть
сбит ополченцами

104
00:03:47,049 --> 00:03:48,143
которые по ошибке
приняли его

105
00:03:48,989 --> 00:03:50,056
за боевой самолет

106
00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:51,754
однозначного
подтверждения и этой

107
00:03:52,609 --> 00:03:54,623
или других версий
пока нет

108
00:03:54,749 --> 00:03:55,834
международные
эксперты только

109
00:03:56,599 --> 00:03:58,627
начинает работу с
данными разбившегося

110
00:03:58,879 --> 00:03:59,885
лайнера

111
00:03:59,939 --> 00:04:02,400
значимость этого
расследования сейчас

112
00:04:02,004 --> 00:04:02,903
кажется

113
00:04:03,299 --> 00:04:05,325
трудно переоценить

114
00:04:05,559 --> 00:04:06,618
уменьшена 900

1
00:00:01,699 --> 00:00:03,810
 cajas negras del Boeing se estrelló

2
00:00:03,081 --> 00:00:05,156
 finalmente pasa aquí y expertos

3
00:00:06,056 --> 00:00:09,255
 Bueno, ¿cuánto le pueden decir

4
00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:09,845
 grabadoras registrados

5
00:00:10,619 --> 00:00:12,687
 Coordenadas planas y pollos en el momento

6
00:00:13,299 --> 00:00:13,388
 incidente

7
00:00:14,189 --> 00:00:16,730
 y el sonido de una explosión podría ser preservado

8
00:00:16,073 --> 00:00:18,089
 pero no te dicen qué es exactamente lo era

9
00:00:18,089 --> 00:00:20,608
 parte de esta explosión

10
00:00:21,409 --> 00:00:23,422
 pueblos cercanos asegura que

11
00:00:23,539 --> 00:00:25,587
 visto en el cielo poco antes de aviones de guerra

12
00:00:26,019 --> 00:00:27,034
 Catástrofe

13
00:00:27,169 --> 00:00:29,213
 a saber, los combatientes en su dictamen podría

14
00:00:29,609 --> 00:00:31,130
 golpear boeing

15
00:00:31,013 --> 00:00:33,052
 dos explosiones en el aire esto es ahora

16
00:00:33,052 --> 00:00:34,150
 mientras se debatía

17
00:00:35,005 --> 00:00:36,094
 Y así, cuando es positiva en ambos lados

18
00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:40,092
 presión militar plano elena como

19
00:00:40,092 --> 00:00:41,151
 porque nada se veía

20
00:00:42,051 --> 00:00:45,070
 recientemente hizo eso y que los pasajeros

21
00:00:45,007 --> 00:00:46,046
 pero el resultado

22
00:00:47,009 --> 00:00:49,048
 en el momento de la detención de la obra por lo que

23
00:00:49,048 --> 00:00:51,079
 Tatra afectada aviones

24
00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:53,082
 cambiado la trayectoria de todo lo que voló

25
00:00:54,009 --> 00:00:55,101
 en la dirección equivocada

26
00:00:56,001 --> 00:00:58,730
 Las autoridades ucranianas rechazaron esta versión

27
00:00:58,739 --> 00:00:59,803
 que consideran que la lucha fue alcanzado por un misil

28
00:01:00,379 --> 00:01:02,424
 haya llegado complejo por

29
00:01:02,829 --> 00:01:04,680
 Rusia este sistema

30
00:01:04,068 --> 00:01:05,069
 haya m1

31
00:01:05,078 --> 00:01:07,080
 que fue golpeado por un avión

32
00:01:07,008 --> 00:01:12,012
 llegó a Ucrania en la ciencia y el cerdo

33
00:01:13,002 --> 00:01:15,053
 fue llevada a atacar la ciudad

34
00:01:15,071 --> 00:01:15,166
 Minsk

35
00:01:16,066 --> 00:01:17,120
 era entonces

36
00:01:18,002 --> 00:01:20,026
 Me mudé de que comprende Donetsk

37
00:01:20,044 --> 00:01:21,136
 columna de material militar

38
00:01:22,036 --> 00:01:25,097
 en esta área Torez con precisión

39
00:01:25,097 --> 00:01:27,186
 para la nieve en una marca entrevista

40
00:01:28,086 --> 00:01:30,104
 Servicio de Seguridad de Ucrania publicó

41
00:01:31,004 --> 00:01:33,011
 fotos y videos en su opinión demuestra

42
00:01:33,074 --> 00:01:33,150
 que boeing

43
00:01:34,005 --> 00:01:36,028
 fue alcanzado por una hogaza de misiles

44
00:01:36,073 --> 00:01:37,092
 vamos a tratar de

45
00:01:37,092 --> 00:01:40,110
 echa un vistazo a estas imágenes y datos en áreas

46
00:01:41,001 --> 00:01:42,017
 una de las fotografías era

47
00:01:42,026 --> 00:01:43,077
 muestra ventas cercanas

48
00:01:43,077 --> 00:01:45,154
 de la ciudad para probar que era humo visible

49
00:01:46,054 --> 00:01:48,089
 con el sitio de la supuesta lanzamiento de un misil

50
00:01:48,089 --> 00:01:49,172
 tratamos de encontrar este lugar y parece

51
00:01:50,072 --> 00:01:52,127
 hemos conseguido, estamos en el borde

52
00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:55,051
 Ciudad Tarasov a mis espaldas sobre

53
00:01:55,051 --> 00:01:57,090
 cinco kilómetros de la nieve y de la ciudad

54
00:01:57,009 --> 00:01:59,026
 terrain aquí coinciden

55
00:02:00,007 --> 00:02:01,069
 terreno que vemos en

56
00:02:01,069 --> 00:02:02,145
 Foto lanzado

57
00:02:03,045 --> 00:02:04,144
 Servicio de Seguridad de Ucrania

58
00:02:05,044 --> 00:02:06,047
 para encontrar un lugar desde el cual

59
00:02:06,074 --> 00:02:07,170
 presumiblemente llegó humo

60
00:02:08,007 --> 00:02:10,064
 tomamos estos tres puntos de referencia para su álamo

61
00:02:11,027 --> 00:02:15,706
 grupo

62
00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:17,025
 pero es de suponer que en lugar

63
00:02:17,709 --> 00:02:20,090
 que se puede ver en el horizonte Photo

64
00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:22,648
 sbu liberado y aquí en nuestros puntos de referencia

65
00:02:22,729 --> 00:02:23,824
 tres sencillos que los polacos y en voz alta

66
00:02:24,679 --> 00:02:25,728
 árbol en Belek

67
00:02:26,169 --> 00:02:27,264
 humo que se puede ver en la foto fue

68
00:02:28,119 --> 00:02:31,125
 de alguna parte de detrás de mis chozas Back II

69
00:02:31,179 --> 00:02:33,188
 que este medio da Oscar libro del cohete, pero

70
00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:35,171
 Aquí hay que señalar que esta aproximadamente

71
00:02:35,999 --> 00:02:38,008
 este lugar es un monumento

72
00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:39,175
 ALOR complejo de la tumba cerca de la cual

73
00:02:39,949 --> 00:02:41,967
 hay constantes peleas de su mina de carbón

74
00:02:42,129 --> 00:02:44,138
 humo podría fácilmente obtenido grado

75
00:02:45,029 --> 00:02:48,107
 probablemente resultado de cualquiera de estos lugares

76
00:02:48,809 --> 00:02:49,898
 un círculo los campos cercanos

77
00:02:50,699 --> 00:02:52,715
 Los rastreos de lanzamiento de cohetes a encontrar

78
00:02:52,859 --> 00:02:53,886
 fracasado

79
00:02:54,129 --> 00:02:55,224
 que no se ve la letra nos recibió

80
00:02:56,079 --> 00:02:59,083
 locales

81
00:02:59,119 --> 00:03:01,177
 sobre las ruinas de las discusiones Strezhevoi

82
00:03:01,699 --> 00:03:02,751
 combatientes pueden

83
00:03:03,219 --> 00:03:05,360
 puertos de contacto adjuntos

84
00:03:05,036 --> 00:03:06,885
 año y medio

85
00:03:07,209 --> 00:03:09,241
 solicitado una bomba se cobró la parte superior aquí

86
00:03:09,529 --> 00:03:11,548
 la vida es una de las seis personas

87
00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:13,781
 están cubiertos por estos

88
00:03:14,339 --> 00:03:15,421
 aviones civiles volar y, a veces

89
00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:18,159
 que dejó de volar primer ministro civil

90
00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:20,168
 Ballet

91
00:03:20,249 --> 00:03:22,318
 No oculto el hecho de que es un poco más de tiempo

92
00:03:22,939 --> 00:03:24,940
 demostraron que el interés por

93
00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:27,047
 bombas volantes civiles ocultos de nuevo

94
00:03:27,119 --> 00:03:28,148
 Derechos civiles

95
00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,423
 comandante de la milicia local

96
00:03:29,549 --> 00:03:32,120
 subrayar que no tienen armas

97
00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,017
 capaz de golpear realmente

98
00:03:33,062 --> 00:03:34,501
 altura

99
00:03:35,059 --> 00:03:37,064
 pero dice que si este tipo de armas cada

100
00:03:37,109 --> 00:03:39,113
 parecían que hubieran tratado de

101
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:41,513
 cualquier error no rota civiles

102
00:03:41,909 --> 00:03:43,981
 armas

103
00:03:44,629 --> 00:03:46,671
 por lo que podría cualquier persona podría ser derribado por las milicias

104
00:03:47,049 --> 00:03:48,143
 que confundió a su

105
00:03:48,989 --> 00:03:50,056
 para los aviones de combate

106
00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:51,754
 confirmación inequívoca de este y

107
00:03:52,609 --> 00:03:54,623
 o otras versiones todavía

108
00:03:54,749 --> 00:03:55,834
 expertos internacionales sólo

109
00:03:56,599 --> 00:03:58,627
 comienza con los datos de estrellado

110
00:03:58,879 --> 00:03:59,885
 transatlántico

111
00:03:59,939 --> 00:04:02,400
 importancia de esta investigación ahora

112
00:04:02,004 --> 00:04:02,903
 parece

113
00:04:03,299 --> 00:04:05,325
 difícil sobreestimar

114
00:04:05,559 --> 00:04:06,618
 reducida 900