MH-17:
Unanswered
Questions
The information included here is not meant to encourage a rush to judgement.
It is however, with the victims and their grieving families in mind, all desperate for answers, that I have included omitted deleted or redacted data in the belief that many of you will not have had access to some (if not all) of it.
I knew nobody on this flight but have many times traversed the flight path en route to elsewhere.
If it had been myself who was a victim, I would be grateful that there were individuals out there still thinking about me, even though none knew me, and were attempting to find answers for my grieving loved ones and relatives – if I had any. if I had none, likewise grateful that such were just seeking answers as to why I and my fellow passengers so tragically (and in an instant) ceased to exist.
Is it a foregone conclusion that we know the answers? Certainly not.
Is it a foregone conclusion that foul play was involved? Certainly yes.
Was this premeditated mass murder or just a terrible accident? To date there is no conclusive proof either way.
Do we know for certain who is to blame? Investigations are still in progress and until the experts have given their majority (and possibly dissenting) opinions (and perhaps those views will also be challenged) nobody can (nor should) offer any conclusive judgements
I am including video material showing what appears to be a commercial/civilian airliner (in the background) falling from the sky.
I have neither verified the 3-D topography, contours nor other details required to give proper identification but have included the material for anyone who might shed further light on it.
I am working on the assumption that this is neither faked nor edited but just normal raw footage. My basis for this is what I would expect to find as an extract in a modern fighter aircraft recording in real time.
The weather conditions at the exact time (of the presumed tragedy included here) appear to be slightly overcast maybe with light drizzle and certainly not a clear sky. The topological layout (in a 3-D setting) is not a difficult problem to resolve. There would appear to be two fighter/military aircraft in the immediate vicinity. This is in keeping with the report which I had at that time of the tragedy about there being 2 fighter aircraft in the vicinity and which you will find in an earlier blog last year. I was never able to confirm from a second independent source the presence of 2 fighter aircraft (and I said this in my blog at the time of the incident last year.) I believe I was either the only or one of two individuals in the world to be confirming two fighter aircraft in the vicinity of the incident. Even Russian military reports on State News Channels were only talking about one military fighter being seen in the immediate vicinity at the time of the tragedy. Other Russian Federation news channels were likewise referring to the possible presence of one fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of the incident.
This video footage below appears to now vindicate my single source of information at the time of the incident last year.
A Personal Note
BBC Deletion of Evidential Material From It's Website
The BBC explains why it removed a Report by Ms. Olga
Ivshina from it's website. You will find their public reasons when you attempt to access the deleted material.
In such circumstances as exist,
the deletion of information which could assist with a case where mass
murder is suspected, the reputation of the BBC, as a credible new
source, may very well suffer long-term irreparable damage in many parts
of the world. It's not the issue of 'fair and balanced' coverage but
because we are talking about a potential War Crime, all evidential
information which is credible should be available for examination - not
just 'on demand' - but as a public record.
I saw nothing in Ms. Olga
Ivshina's Report which suggested conscious or unconscious bias. Quite
the opposite, from what I viewed, Ms Ivshina went out of her way to
attempt to cover, as best she could, the reported incident, from all
sides.
Patrick Emek
If you do not believe the BBC's explanation of why it removed material from it's website and want alternative viewpoints, you will find them at:
The deleted/censored BBC/Ivshina MH17 Report with English subtitles: https://vimeo.com/111325917
There Were 2 Military Aircraft Present In this Extract Below
The video extract below is not BBC copyright footage.
If anyone cares to claim it as their copyright material, please let me know.
1.Source:
Anonymous Sender
©Patrick Emek, 2015
Grammatical corrections on 8th March, 2015
if you cannot view it at this site type the following You Tube entry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4r1bvWtObo
2.Sent
with the message:
''Please let
the relatives of the victims know that these stories are not true.''
I am
including the video – without any further comment.
2. Source:Anonymous Sender
Additional
References
vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.es
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/the-catastrophe-of-mh17-bbc-in-search.html
The Catastrophe of #MH17: BBC in the Search of the “#BUK” –
The Video Report Censored by BBC
Translated from Russian by Gleb Bazov
Note: Videos & a PDF of the Google Web-cache Have Been Preserved and Are Available Upon Request Preamble: Why did the BBC delete this report by Olga Ivshina? Is it because the BBC team was unable to find any evidence that a rocket was launched in the area that the Ukrainian Security Service (“SBU”) alleges to be the place from which the Novorossiya Militia launched a “BUK” missile? Or is it because every eyewitness interviewed by the BBC team specifically indicated the presence of Ukrainian military aircraft right beside the Malaysian Airlines Boeing MH17 at the time that it was shot down? Or is it because of eyewitness accounts (like the one posted following the transcript of the BBC report) confirming that the Ukrainian air force regularly used civilian aircraft flying over Novorossiya as human shields to protect its military aircraft conducting strikes against civilian population from the Militia’s anti-aircraft units?
I reserve the final judgment to the readers of this blog. This entry is broken down into:
1. introductory paragraphs to the BBC video report;
2. English-language transcript of the BBC video report; and,
3. a video interview with Elena, a Militia fighter, recorded in Slavyansk on or about June 18, 2014, or one
month prior to the MH17 catastrophe, wherein she states that, even then, the Ukrainian military aircraft would customarily hide behind civilian aircraft to bomb civilian targets on the ground.
In the last part of this entry Elena predicts that the Ukrainian military will stage the horrible catastrophe like the MH17 crash - she makes this prediction one whole month prior to the disaster.
Video: The Catastrophe of #MH17: #BBC in the Search of the “#BUK”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8sjMWhl-4
Original BBC Video Report: Preserved by Google Web-cache
Introductory Paragraphs to the BBC Video Report
The “black boxes” of the crashed Malaysian Boeing have finally been transferred into the hands of the experts.
However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.
The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from Russia.
The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a “BUK” missile.
BBC reporter Olga Ivshina and producer Oksana Vozhdayeva decided to find the place from which the missile was allegedly launched.
Transcript of the BBC Video Report DPR Representative: Here it is.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The black boxes from the crashed Boeing are finally being transferred into the hands of the experts. However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.
The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …
Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.
Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.
Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from the direction of Russia.
Vitaliy Naida, Department of Counterintelligence of SBU [Ukrainian Security Service]: This was a BUK M1 system from which the aircraft was shot down. It came to Ukraine early in the morning on the 17th of July. It was delivered by a tow truck to the city of Donetsk. After that, it was redeployed from Donetsk, as part of a column of military equipment, to the area of the city of Torez, to the area of Snezhnoye, to the area of Pervomaisk.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a “BUK” missile. We attempted to verify these photographs and information at the location.
One of the photographs showed a landscape not far from the city of Torez, on which smoke could be seen coming from the presumed location of the missile’s launch. We attempted to find this location, and it appears that we were successful.
We are now on the outskirts of the city of Torez. Behind me, approximately five kilometres away, is the city of Snezhnoye. And the landscape here matches the landscape that we can see on the photograph published by the Ukrainian Security Service.
To find the place from which the smoke was allegedly coming from, we adopted as markers these three poplars and the group of trees. Presumably, this is the place that can be seen on the photograph published by the SBU.
And here are our markers: the three solitary poplars and the small group of trees in the distance.
The smoke that can be seen on the photograph came from somewhere over there [pointing behind her], behind my back. The SBU believes that this is a trace coming from the launch of a “BUK” missile.
However, it must be noted that there are here, approximately in the same place, the Saur-Mogila memorial, near which the fighting continues almost unabated, and a coalmine. It turns out that the smoke with the same degree of probability could have been coming from any of these locations.
Having circled around the nearby fields, we were unable to find any traces of a missile launch. Nor did the local inhabitants that we encountered see any “BUK” either.
At the ruins of an apartment building in the city of Snezhnoye, the topic of the jet fighters that may have been escorting civilian aircraft comes up again. A bomb dropped from above took away the lives of eleven civilians here.
Sergey Godovanets, Commander of the Militia of the city of Snezhnoye: They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them. It is only now that they stopped flying over us – but, usually, civilian aircraft would always fly above
us. And they hide [behind them]. [The experience in] Slavyansk had demonstrated that they would fly out from behind a civilian aircraft, bomb away, and then hide, once again, behind the civilian aircraft and fly away.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The commander of the local militia emphasizes that they have no weaponry capable of shooting down a jet fighter [flying] at a significant height. However, he says that if such weaponry were to appear,
they would have tried to.
Sergey Godovanets: If we know that it is not a civilian aircraft, but a military one, then – yes.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: So, could the Boeing have been shot down by the militias that had mistaken it for a military aircraft? There is as yet no unequivocal confirmation of either this or any other version [of what took place]. The international experts are just beginning their work with the information obtained from the crashed airliner. It now appears that it is difficult to overstate the importance of this investigation. Olga Ivshina, BBC.
Militia Elena: Ukrainian Military Planes Hide Behind Civilian Airliners
Video: Recorded at least one month prior to MH17 Crash, published with ENG subs on June 18, 2014
Note: Pay close attention starting at 01:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE
(this reference has now been deleted by You Tube)
an alternative explanation can be found at:
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Talk:Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
External Material (extract) available from other sources (August 2nd 2014)
Photograph of Mh -17 Cockpit.
Website reference:
https://ronaldwederfoort.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/cis-the-plane-mh-17-was-brought-down-by-machine-gun-fire-from-the-right-and-above/
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black boxes of crashed Boeing
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finally passes here and experts
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Well, how much they can tell
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recorders recorded
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Plane coordinates and chickens at the moment
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incident
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and the sound of an explosion could be preserved
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but they do not tell you what exactly was
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part of this explosion
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nearby villages assures that
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seen in the sky shortly before warplanes
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Catastrophe
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namely fighters in their opinion could
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knock boeing
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two explosions was in the air this is now
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as he was torn
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And so when positive on both sides
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elena plane military pressure as they
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because nothing was to be seen
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recently did that and that passenger
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but the result
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at the time of arrest of the book so
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Tatra affected aircraft
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changed the trajectory of all that flew
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in the wrong direction
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Ukrainian authorities rejected this version
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they consider that the fight he was hit by a missile
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complex beech arrived by
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Russia this system
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beech m1
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which was hit by a plane
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arrived in Ukraine in science and the pig
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she was taken to attacking the city
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Minsk
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was then
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I relocated from Donetsk comprising
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column of military equipment
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in this area Torez it accurately
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for snow in an interview marca
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Security Service of Ukraine published
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pictures and videos in her opinion proves
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that boeing
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was hit by a missile loaf
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we will try to
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check out these pictures and data on areas
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one of the photographs was
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shows sales close
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from the city to try which was visible smoke
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with the site of the alleged missile launch
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we tried to find this place and it seems
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we succeeded, we are on the edge
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Tarasov city behind my back about
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five kilometers of snow and city
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terrain here coincide
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terrain that we see in
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Photo released
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Security Service of Ukraine
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to find a place from which
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presumably came smoke
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we took these three benchmarks for their poplar
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clump
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but presumably it instead
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which can be seen on the horizon Photo
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sbu released and here at our benchmarks
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three singles that Poles and loud
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tree in Belek
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smoke that can be seen in the photo went
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from somewhere out from behind my back huts ii
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that this medium gives Oscar rocket book but
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Here it should be noted that this approximately
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this place is a memorial
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ALOR tomb complex near which
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there are constant fights its coal mine
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smoke could easily obtained degree
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likely outcome of any of these locations
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circled the nearby fields
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traces rocket launch us find
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failed
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not seen the letter met us
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locals
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on the ruins of Strezhevoi threads
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fighters may
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accompanying contact ports
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and a half years
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requested a bomb claimed the top here
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life is one of six people
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they are covered by these
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civilian aircraft fly and sometimes
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it stopped flying civilian prime minister
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Ballet
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I do not hide the fact that it is a little more time
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they showed that the interest for
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civil flying bombs hidden again
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Civil Rights
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commander of the local militia
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emphasize that they have no weapons
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able to really knock
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high altitude
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but says that if such weapons each
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appeared they would have tried to
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any mistake not civil turnover
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weapons
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so could anyone could be brought down by militias
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who mistook his
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for combat aircraft
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unambiguous confirmation of this and
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or other versions yet
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international experts only
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starts with the data of crashed
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liner
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significance of this investigation now
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it seems
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difficult to overestimate
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reduced 900
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черные ящики
разбившегося боинга
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наконец передает вот
и экспертов
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ну как много они могут
рассказать
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самописцы
зафиксировали
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координаты и кур
самолета на момент
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инцидента
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и могли сохраниться
звук взрыва
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но они не расскажут
чем в точности был
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вызван этот взрыв
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жители близлежащих
сёл уверяет что
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видели в небе боевые
самолеты незадолго до
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катастрофы
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именно истребителей
по их мнению могли
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сбить boeing
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два взрыва была в
воздухе вот это вот
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как он разрывался
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так вот когда
позитива по сторонам
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елена самолет военное
давление они же
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ничего потому что
было видно было
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недавние сделали что
пассажирского и что
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но результат
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на момент задержания
книги поэтому от
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самолета татре
сказался
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поменял траекторию
полета все что летело
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в ту сторону
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власти украины
отвергает эту версию
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они считают что бой он
был сбит ракетой
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комплекса бук
прибывшего со стороны
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россии эта система
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бук м1
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в которую был сбит
самолет
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прибыла в украину к
наукам и свиноводства
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она была доставлена
нападающие город
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минск
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после этого было
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я передислоцирована
из донецка в составе
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колонны военной
техники
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в этот район города
торез в нем точно
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за снежного в
интервью marca
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служба безопасности
украины обнародовала
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снимки и видео по ее
мнению доказывающий
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что boeing
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был сбит ракетой
булку
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мы постараемся
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проверить эти снимки
и данные на местности
46
00:01:41,001 --> 00:01:42,017
на одной из
фотографий был
47
00:01:42,026 --> 00:01:43,077
изображен продаж
недалеко
48
00:01:43,077 --> 00:01:45,154
от города стараюсь на
котором был виден дым
49
00:01:46,054 --> 00:01:48,089
с места предполагала
пуска ракеты
50
00:01:48,089 --> 00:01:49,172
мы постарались найти
это место и кажется
51
00:01:50,072 --> 00:01:52,127
это нам удалось мы
находимся на окраине
52
00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:55,051
города тарасов за
моей спиной примерно
53
00:01:55,051 --> 00:01:57,090
в пяти километрах
город снежного и
54
00:01:57,009 --> 00:01:59,026
рельеф местности
здесь совпадают
55
00:02:00,007 --> 00:02:01,069
рельеф местности
который мы видим на
56
00:02:01,069 --> 00:02:02,145
фотографии
обнародованные
57
00:02:03,045 --> 00:02:04,144
службы безопасности
украины
58
00:02:05,044 --> 00:02:06,047
чтобы найти место с
которого
59
00:02:06,074 --> 00:02:07,170
предположительно
исходила дым
60
00:02:08,007 --> 00:02:10,064
мы взяли за ориентиры
эти три тополя их
61
00:02:11,027 --> 00:02:15,706
группу деревья
62
00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:17,025
предположительно а
вот она вместо
63
00:02:17,709 --> 00:02:20,090
которой видно на
горизонте фотографии
64
00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:22,648
обнародованные сбу а
вот у наши ориентиры
65
00:02:22,729 --> 00:02:23,824
три одиночных то
поляки и громко
66
00:02:24,679 --> 00:02:25,728
дереве в белеке
67
00:02:26,169 --> 00:02:27,264
дым который видно на
фотографии сходила
68
00:02:28,119 --> 00:02:31,125
откуда то оттуда из за
моей спины избушек ii
69
00:02:31,179 --> 00:02:33,188
что это сред отдав
оскара ракета book но
70
00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:35,171
нужно отметить что
здесь примерно в этом
71
00:02:35,999 --> 00:02:38,008
же месте находится
мемориальный
72
00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:39,175
комплекс алор могила
около которого
73
00:02:39,949 --> 00:02:41,967
постоянно идут бои ее
угольная шахта
74
00:02:42,129 --> 00:02:44,138
получается дым мог
спокойно степени
75
00:02:45,029 --> 00:02:48,107
вероятности исходить
из любого из этих мест
76
00:02:48,809 --> 00:02:49,898
покружив по
близлежащим полям
77
00:02:50,699 --> 00:02:52,715
следов запуска ракеты
нам найти
78
00:02:52,859 --> 00:02:53,886
не удалось
79
00:02:54,129 --> 00:02:55,224
не видели букве
встреченные нами
80
00:02:56,079 --> 00:02:59,083
местные жители
81
00:02:59,119 --> 00:03:01,177
на развалинах того в
городе стрежевой темы
82
00:03:01,699 --> 00:03:02,751
истребителей
возможно
83
00:03:03,219 --> 00:03:05,360
сопровождавшие
контакте порты
84
00:03:05,036 --> 00:03:06,885
с половиной года
85
00:03:07,209 --> 00:03:09,241
запрошенная сверху
бомба унесла здесь
86
00:03:09,529 --> 00:03:11,548
жизни один из шести
человек
87
00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:13,781
они прикрываются
этими
88
00:03:14,339 --> 00:03:15,421
гражданские самолеты
летают и подчас
89
00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:18,159
перестали летать это
гражданских премьера
90
00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:20,168
балета
91
00:03:20,249 --> 00:03:22,318
я не прятать мало того
что это еще раз
92
00:03:22,939 --> 00:03:24,940
показал что они
проценты за
93
00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:27,047
гражданского летали
бомбили опять прятали
94
00:03:27,119 --> 00:03:28,148
за гражданские права
95
00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,423
командир местных
ополченцев
96
00:03:29,549 --> 00:03:32,120
подчеркивать что у
них нет оружия
97
00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,017
способного сбить
действительно
98
00:03:33,062 --> 00:03:34,501
большой высоте
99
00:03:35,059 --> 00:03:37,064
но говорит что если бы
такое оружие друг
100
00:03:37,109 --> 00:03:39,113
появилось они бы
попытались
101
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:41,513
ведь любая ошибка не
гражданский оборот
102
00:03:41,909 --> 00:03:43,981
оружия
103
00:03:44,629 --> 00:03:46,671
так мог любой мог быть
сбит ополченцами
104
00:03:47,049 --> 00:03:48,143
которые по ошибке
приняли его
105
00:03:48,989 --> 00:03:50,056
за боевой самолет
106
00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:51,754
однозначного
подтверждения и этой
107
00:03:52,609 --> 00:03:54,623
или других версий
пока нет
108
00:03:54,749 --> 00:03:55,834
международные
эксперты только
109
00:03:56,599 --> 00:03:58,627
начинает работу с
данными разбившегося
110
00:03:58,879 --> 00:03:59,885
лайнера
111
00:03:59,939 --> 00:04:02,400
значимость этого
расследования сейчас
112
00:04:02,004 --> 00:04:02,903
кажется
113
00:04:03,299 --> 00:04:05,325
трудно переоценить
114
00:04:05,559 --> 00:04:06,618
уменьшена 900
1
00:00:01,699 --> 00:00:03,810
cajas negras del Boeing se estrelló
2
00:00:03,081 --> 00:00:05,156
finalmente pasa aquí y expertos
3
00:00:06,056 --> 00:00:09,255
Bueno, ¿cuánto le pueden decir
4
00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:09,845
grabadoras registrados
5
00:00:10,619 --> 00:00:12,687
Coordenadas planas y pollos en el momento
6
00:00:13,299 --> 00:00:13,388
incidente
7
00:00:14,189 --> 00:00:16,730
y el sonido de una explosión podría ser preservado
8
00:00:16,073 --> 00:00:18,089
pero no te dicen qué es exactamente lo era
9
00:00:18,089 --> 00:00:20,608
parte de esta explosión
10
00:00:21,409 --> 00:00:23,422
pueblos cercanos asegura que
11
00:00:23,539 --> 00:00:25,587
visto en el cielo poco antes de aviones de guerra
12
00:00:26,019 --> 00:00:27,034
Catástrofe
13
00:00:27,169 --> 00:00:29,213
a saber, los combatientes en su dictamen podría
14
00:00:29,609 --> 00:00:31,130
golpear boeing
15
00:00:31,013 --> 00:00:33,052
dos explosiones en el aire esto es ahora
16
00:00:33,052 --> 00:00:34,150
mientras se debatía
17
00:00:35,005 --> 00:00:36,094
Y así, cuando es positiva en ambos lados
18
00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:40,092
presión militar plano elena como
19
00:00:40,092 --> 00:00:41,151
porque nada se veía
20
00:00:42,051 --> 00:00:45,070
recientemente hizo eso y que los pasajeros
21
00:00:45,007 --> 00:00:46,046
pero el resultado
22
00:00:47,009 --> 00:00:49,048
en el momento de la detención de la obra por lo que
23
00:00:49,048 --> 00:00:51,079
Tatra afectada aviones
24
00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:53,082
cambiado la trayectoria de todo lo que voló
25
00:00:54,009 --> 00:00:55,101
en la dirección equivocada
26
00:00:56,001 --> 00:00:58,730
Las autoridades ucranianas rechazaron esta versión
27
00:00:58,739 --> 00:00:59,803
que consideran que la lucha fue alcanzado por un misil
28
00:01:00,379 --> 00:01:02,424
haya llegado complejo por
29
00:01:02,829 --> 00:01:04,680
Rusia este sistema
30
00:01:04,068 --> 00:01:05,069
haya m1
31
00:01:05,078 --> 00:01:07,080
que fue golpeado por un avión
32
00:01:07,008 --> 00:01:12,012
llegó a Ucrania en la ciencia y el cerdo
33
00:01:13,002 --> 00:01:15,053
fue llevada a atacar la ciudad
34
00:01:15,071 --> 00:01:15,166
Minsk
35
00:01:16,066 --> 00:01:17,120
era entonces
36
00:01:18,002 --> 00:01:20,026
Me mudé de que comprende Donetsk
37
00:01:20,044 --> 00:01:21,136
columna de material militar
38
00:01:22,036 --> 00:01:25,097
en esta área Torez con precisión
39
00:01:25,097 --> 00:01:27,186
para la nieve en una marca entrevista
40
00:01:28,086 --> 00:01:30,104
Servicio de Seguridad de Ucrania publicó
41
00:01:31,004 --> 00:01:33,011
fotos y videos en su opinión demuestra
42
00:01:33,074 --> 00:01:33,150
que boeing
43
00:01:34,005 --> 00:01:36,028
fue alcanzado por una hogaza de misiles
44
00:01:36,073 --> 00:01:37,092
vamos a tratar de
45
00:01:37,092 --> 00:01:40,110
echa un vistazo a estas imágenes y datos en áreas
46
00:01:41,001 --> 00:01:42,017
una de las fotografías era
47
00:01:42,026 --> 00:01:43,077
muestra ventas cercanas
48
00:01:43,077 --> 00:01:45,154
de la ciudad para probar que era humo visible
49
00:01:46,054 --> 00:01:48,089
con el sitio de la supuesta lanzamiento de un misil
50
00:01:48,089 --> 00:01:49,172
tratamos de encontrar este lugar y parece
51
00:01:50,072 --> 00:01:52,127
hemos conseguido, estamos en el borde
52
00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:55,051
Ciudad Tarasov a mis espaldas sobre
53
00:01:55,051 --> 00:01:57,090
cinco kilómetros de la nieve y de la ciudad
54
00:01:57,009 --> 00:01:59,026
terrain aquí coinciden
55
00:02:00,007 --> 00:02:01,069
terreno que vemos en
56
00:02:01,069 --> 00:02:02,145
Foto lanzado
57
00:02:03,045 --> 00:02:04,144
Servicio de Seguridad de Ucrania
58
00:02:05,044 --> 00:02:06,047
para encontrar un lugar desde el cual
59
00:02:06,074 --> 00:02:07,170
presumiblemente llegó humo
60
00:02:08,007 --> 00:02:10,064
tomamos estos tres puntos de referencia para su álamo
61
00:02:11,027 --> 00:02:15,706
grupo
62
00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:17,025
pero es de suponer que en lugar
63
00:02:17,709 --> 00:02:20,090
que se puede ver en el horizonte Photo
64
00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:22,648
sbu liberado y aquí en nuestros puntos de referencia
65
00:02:22,729 --> 00:02:23,824
tres sencillos que los polacos y en voz alta
66
00:02:24,679 --> 00:02:25,728
árbol en Belek
67
00:02:26,169 --> 00:02:27,264
humo que se puede ver en la foto fue
68
00:02:28,119 --> 00:02:31,125
de alguna parte de detrás de mis chozas Back II
69
00:02:31,179 --> 00:02:33,188
que este medio da Oscar libro del cohete, pero
70
00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:35,171
Aquí hay que señalar que esta aproximadamente
71
00:02:35,999 --> 00:02:38,008
este lugar es un monumento
72
00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:39,175
ALOR complejo de la tumba cerca de la cual
73
00:02:39,949 --> 00:02:41,967
hay constantes peleas de su mina de carbón
74
00:02:42,129 --> 00:02:44,138
humo podría fácilmente obtenido grado
75
00:02:45,029 --> 00:02:48,107
probablemente resultado de cualquiera de estos lugares
76
00:02:48,809 --> 00:02:49,898
un círculo los campos cercanos
77
00:02:50,699 --> 00:02:52,715
Los rastreos de lanzamiento de cohetes a encontrar
78
00:02:52,859 --> 00:02:53,886
fracasado
79
00:02:54,129 --> 00:02:55,224
que no se ve la letra nos recibió
80
00:02:56,079 --> 00:02:59,083
locales
81
00:02:59,119 --> 00:03:01,177
sobre las ruinas de las discusiones Strezhevoi
82
00:03:01,699 --> 00:03:02,751
combatientes pueden
83
00:03:03,219 --> 00:03:05,360
puertos de contacto adjuntos
84
00:03:05,036 --> 00:03:06,885
año y medio
85
00:03:07,209 --> 00:03:09,241
solicitado una bomba se cobró la parte superior aquí
86
00:03:09,529 --> 00:03:11,548
la vida es una de las seis personas
87
00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:13,781
están cubiertos por estos
88
00:03:14,339 --> 00:03:15,421
aviones civiles volar y, a veces
89
00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:18,159
que dejó de volar primer ministro civil
90
00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:20,168
Ballet
91
00:03:20,249 --> 00:03:22,318
No oculto el hecho de que es un poco más de tiempo
92
00:03:22,939 --> 00:03:24,940
demostraron que el interés por
93
00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:27,047
bombas volantes civiles ocultos de nuevo
94
00:03:27,119 --> 00:03:28,148
Derechos civiles
95
00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,423
comandante de la milicia local
96
00:03:29,549 --> 00:03:32,120
subrayar que no tienen armas
97
00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,017
capaz de golpear realmente
98
00:03:33,062 --> 00:03:34,501
altura
99
00:03:35,059 --> 00:03:37,064
pero dice que si este tipo de armas cada
100
00:03:37,109 --> 00:03:39,113
parecían que hubieran tratado de
101
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:41,513
cualquier error no rota civiles
102
00:03:41,909 --> 00:03:43,981
armas
103
00:03:44,629 --> 00:03:46,671
por lo que podría cualquier persona podría ser derribado por las milicias
104
00:03:47,049 --> 00:03:48,143
que confundió a su
105
00:03:48,989 --> 00:03:50,056
para los aviones de combate
106
00:03:50,659 --> 00:03:51,754
confirmación inequívoca de este y
107
00:03:52,609 --> 00:03:54,623
o otras versiones todavía
108
00:03:54,749 --> 00:03:55,834
expertos internacionales sólo
109
00:03:56,599 --> 00:03:58,627
comienza con los datos de estrellado
110
00:03:58,879 --> 00:03:59,885
transatlántico
111
00:03:59,939 --> 00:04:02,400
importancia de esta investigación ahora
112
00:04:02,004 --> 00:04:02,903
parece
113
00:04:03,299 --> 00:04:05,325
difícil sobreestimar
114
00:04:05,559 --> 00:04:06,618
reducida 900
