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Friday, 24 February 2017

The Strange Demise Of Kim Jong Nam Half Brother of
Kim Jong Un
Leader of North Korea


(edited version)

Speculation

The toxicological report is not yet available but I would not at all be surprised if it should read:

'death was caused by sudden pulmonary embolism' or 'sudden pericardial
effusion caused by substance or substances as yet undetermined.'

I say the above because having had some knowledge, through research, about how such assassins operate, sadly, it is all too easy to 'silently' kill – and there are absolutely no safeguards any country can put in place to prevent such an assassination now nor in the immediate future.

(That is something the general media will not frighten you with!)

I could go even further and say how powerless Border Agencies (Immigration Officers at airports) are to prevent such happenings.

There are synthetic toxins which will not register on any current devices in use even at the most advanced airports in the world.

Indeed, if it were to be known, Immigration and Baggage Check Officers in the normal course of their duties, unless they are wearing full biohazard suits and protective gear, could very well be the (unintentional) first victims should they have the misfortune to 'stop' the 'wrong' suspect for a routine baggage check. [The check itself would prove negative but the officer involved is likely to succumb to a 'fatal' or 'near fatal' 'illness' (cause undetermined) depending on the efficiency of medical treatment, within a very short period of time, but long after the suspect has departed the airport.]

This was a very quick acting toxin.   I have my own ideas.

[Read my blog about viruses to get an appreciation about or around what might have been happening.  All of the above is pure speculation however.]



Malaysian Police Authorities

I do not want to prejudice any enquiries but the Malaysian Police are somewhat out of their depth here and should invite specialists from a 'neutral' country who are 'experts' in these areas – such as Great Britain, Bulgaria or indeed Russia. They might even consider the assistance of countries such as India or China who have the specialist knowledge and skills to assist here.

My concern is that perfectly innocent people who happened to be caught up in the locus will be convicted of what appears to have been a very sophisticated assassination – where nothing is at it appears to be.



Clandestine Operations

Are likely to also become a key feature of the Trump administration with little to no accountability either to Congress nor the American public.

Successes will be announced and claimed by Trump whereas Americans taken prisoner or killed will be forgotten. Welcome to Donald Trump's 'reality' world – where 'losers' (captured or wounded U.S. personnel) are forgotten or left behind to be tortured or rot to death in some far away land. (This contrasts with the ethics and principles of loyalty, service to country, justice and 'nobody left behind nor forgotten' which are (or had been) cornerstones of faith in America's democratic process and the aspirations both U.S. Citizens and new immigrants have had for a better, more just, fairer and secure life in America.)

The problem for Trump here is that if you live by the 'clandestine' sword of unaccountability you may very well perish by it.



Back to Malaysia

I await the toxicological report on Kim Jong Nam with interest – but I am concerned that Malaysia, out of national pride, might decide to 'go it alone' on this one – ignoring assistance from countries with hundreds of years of experience of such matters.


©Patrick Emek, February 2017



added on 25th February, 2017:

So how did I guess it was a synthetic toxin?
Well read the following:


''Eagle9 said: ↑
the agent following The Jackal (Bruce Willis) touches manually the automobile covered with some mysterious substance (The Jackal sprayed this substance to the automobile’s surface) and almost immediately dies. I wonder, does such “killer” substance really exist? The substance that kills you at touch?
Click to expand...
I think the answer to your question is no. I doubt there is any substance that would kill so rapidly via a percutaneous (ie. absorbed through the skin) exposure.
Of course, there is no end of compounds that would kill us in several seconds if we were to be immersed in a pure vat of it or intravenously injected with high doses. But that cannot be considered a likely natural exposure. We should consider compounds as they might be encountered in reality. In the movie scene in question, the character wasn’t held down and IV injected. This leads me to some of the misunderstandings that have been presented here….''
cosmictraveler said: ↑
There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades
Click to expand...
There are no pathogens that kill any faster than at least a few days, more like a week. Toxins may kill faster but we are still talking about a few days, maybe 24 hours if it’s an extreme exposure. So the mystery agent in the movie cannot be a bio-agent.

kevinalm said: ↑
Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin) ....... Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.
Click to expand...
Organophosphorus nerve agents differ in their volatility and, therefore, present different hazards. The low volatility agents, like VX, present a percutaneous hazard whereas the high volatility agents, like GB, present a vapour hazard.
In either case, nerve agents are not suitable for close-quarters assassination (as per the movie) due to the risk of the assassin exposing themselves to the agent. They are only suitable for large-scale stand-off deployment.''





also added on 25th February 2017
PE:
Forget the mainstream media scamsters who just copy each other, read where the best info about synthetic toxins can be found.  The  below is just one interesting site.  When you read, you will appreciate why its contributors are anonymous:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/


1.extracted from  anonymous contributors to a Q&A website which simply explain what is going on:

''cosmictraveler said: ↑
''There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades as well as other nasty stuff that will kill upon contact. What those chemicals are isn't known to the ordinary citizen but rest assured they have it.''
''Yes, I knew a scientist from Ft. Detrick in MD who worked on bio weapons (not the anthrax guy, a different guy, retired). He said there was stuff in there where one drop could kill the entire town.''    
 
spidergoat, Jan 4, 2011  
 
 
Eagle9 said: ↑
Q:''So, only a few scientists are aware about their existence in some secret laboratories, right? And any information regarding such “killer” substances are secret, I assume.''

A:"Well, no. Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin). Their chemical structures are well know, as are the means to produce them. A droplet of VX that can barely be seen, (on the order of a mg or less iirc) will kill on contact. You can probably google the chemical formula for it, I know I saw a magazine article that showed the structure and explained the "binary" system for making it about a decade ago. Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.

Then there are several chemicals of biological origin that are quite deadly. Botulin toxin and ricin (spelling?) come to mind. Botulin toxin is one of the deadliest substances known to man. Although most biologicals are proteins and not readily absorbed through the skin."
Eagle9 said: ↑
Pleasant dreams.
Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)
 
Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
kevinalm, Dec 23, 2010





Q: "Mason: What eggzhactly does this shtuff do?

A:"Goodspeed: It's a cholinesterase inhibitor. Stops the brain from sending nerve messages down the spinal cord within thirty seconds. Any epidermal exposure or inhalation and you'll know. A twinge at the small of your back as the poison seizes your nervous system. Your muscles freeze, you can't breathe, and you spasm so hard you break your own back and spit your guts out. But this is after your skin melts off. (The Rock)"

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2006/Macgee/Web Project/nerve_gas.htm     
 Captain Kremmen, Dec 23, 2010
 
A: "Here's another couple of options:
Curare dissolved in DMSO or Highly concentrated Nicotine dissolved in DMSO.

Dissolving something in DMSO is as good as injecting it straight into a persons veins when they touch it - it's absorbed into the skin, then into your bloodstream, carrying any chemicals with it - it's so mobile in the body that when you touch it, it leaves you with a garlicky after taste in your mouth (it get's excreted onto the tongue).

Both Curare and Nicotine will kill in minutes.
Curare leads to asphyxiation and legal death in about 9 minutes, with symptoms occuring instaneously.
Nicotine causes unconsciousness followed by death from as little as one minute to as many as 15 minutes, depending on constitution, and presumably tolerance."    
 Trippy, Jan 4, 2011    
#9 
 
Conium added:
 
''Dimethyl mercury also is readily absorbed through skin (also rubber, latex, PVC etc.), and if anyone touches something smeared with the stuff without immediately rinsing, then the outlook looks really bleak. Not a suitable movie poison though, but pretty horrific anyway. Unlike nerve gasses mentioned earlier, this one can take months before serious symptoms show up, and when it does, it's too late. But doesn't work for a action movie.

This happened, tragically, to a chemistry professor in the 90's. She spilled a few drops of the stuff from a pipette onto her latex gloved hand.
Five months after the exposure, the neurological symptoms (loss of balance, slurred speech etc.) became apparent and she was admitted to the hospital, and there it was discovered that she had serious mercury poisoning.
From there on it just escalated downhill, and within a few weeks she went into a coma for ca five months until she died. By the time it was discovered, the damage was irreversible.

Basically, dimethyl mercury is a very bioavailable form of mercury which will kill you if you even touch it with gloves, but slowly over the course of months with all the muscular/neurological agony and degradation characteristic of heavy metal poisoning.''

I'll pick VX over DM-Mercury any day.
 Conium, Jan 4, 2011
 
 
 

“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.


That bit is correct.


Wrong. Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.


Not really. Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.


That’s correct. Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion.


Nonsense.

But this is after your skin melts off.

The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''

Hercules Rockefeller said: ↑
“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.
.......Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.........Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.......Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion. Nonsense..........The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''


Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


ScaryMonster said: ↑
''Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


1957: 48 tons of lewisite were dumped off the coast of New Jersey.

1967 - 4,577 tons of mustard agent and 7,380 M55 sarin were dumped.

1968 – 38 one-ton containers of sarin gas and VX nerve gas were dumped,

1968 – 1,460 vaults of M55 sarin gas and VX rockets and 120 drums of arsenic and cyanide canisters. 
ScaryMonster, Jan 5, 2011  
Click to expand...
You're shitting me. They dumped the most dangerous chemical agents in the world IN THE SEA? ''
 Communist Hamster, Jan 21, 2011

PE:
If you are not yet totally scared to death...and your heart has not yet stopped from  the sheer shock at what you read above, there's much more to come...........visit.........

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/

PE:
If you are a scientist (writer, student, or indeed just interested) why not join the forum?
If you are expecting anyone contributing at this website to ever touch base to 'help you out' with your 'bedroom project', forget it!; unless u want a 'visit' from the FBI (!)
 
Posted by at

The Strange Demise Of Kim Jong Nam Half Brother of
Kim Jong Un
Leader of North Korea


(edited version)

Speculation

The toxicological report is not yet available but I would not at all be surprised if it should read:

'death was caused by sudden pulmonary embolism' or 'sudden pericardial
effusion caused by substance or substances as yet undetermined.'

I say the above because having had some knowledge, through research, about how such assassins operate, sadly, it is all too easy to 'silently' kill – and there are absolutely no safeguards any country can put in place to prevent such an assassination now nor in the immediate future.

(That is something the general media will not frighten you with!)

I could go even further and say how powerless Border Agencies (Immigration Officers at airports) are to prevent such happenings.

There are synthetic toxins which will not register on any current devices in use even at the most advanced airports in the world.

Indeed, if it were to be known, Immigration and Baggage Check Officers in the normal course of their duties, unless they are wearing full biohazard suits and protective gear, could very well be the (unintentional) first victims should they have the misfortune to 'stop' the 'wrong' suspect for a routine baggage check. [The check itself would prove negative but the officer involved is likely to succumb to a 'fatal' or 'near fatal' 'illness' (cause undetermined) depending on the efficiency of medical treatment, within a very short period of time, but long after the suspect has departed the airport.]

This was a very quick acting toxin.   I have my own ideas.

[Read my blog about viruses to get an appreciation about or around what might have been happening.  All of the above is pure speculation however.]



Malaysian Police Authorities

I do not want to prejudice any enquiries but the Malaysian Police are somewhat out of their depth here and should invite specialists from a 'neutral' country who are 'experts' in these areas – such as Great Britain, Bulgaria or indeed Russia. They might even consider the assistance of countries such as India or China who have the specialist knowledge and skills to assist here.

My concern is that perfectly innocent people who happened to be caught up in the locus will be convicted of what appears to have been a very sophisticated assassination – where nothing is at it appears to be.



Clandestine Operations

Are likely to also become a key feature of the Trump administration with little to no accountability either to Congress nor the American public.

Successes will be announced and claimed by Trump whereas Americans taken prisoner or killed will be forgotten. Welcome to Donald Trump's 'reality' world – where 'losers' (captured or wounded U.S. personnel) are forgotten or left behind to be tortured or rot to death in some far away land. (This contrasts with the ethics and principles of loyalty, service to country, justice and 'nobody left behind nor forgotten' which are (or had been) cornerstones of faith in America's democratic process and the aspirations both U.S. Citizens and new immigrants have had for a better, more just, fairer and secure life in America.)

The problem for Trump here is that if you live by the 'clandestine' sword of unaccountability you may very well perish by it.



Back to Malaysia

I await the toxicological report on Kim Jong Nam with interest – but I am concerned that Malaysia, out of national pride, might decide to 'go it alone' on this one – ignoring assistance from countries with hundreds of years of experience of such matters.


©Patrick Emek, February 2017



added on 25th February, 2017:

So how did I guess it was a synthetic toxin?
Well read the following:


''Eagle9 said: ↑
the agent following The Jackal (Bruce Willis) touches manually the automobile covered with some mysterious substance (The Jackal sprayed this substance to the automobile’s surface) and almost immediately dies. I wonder, does such “killer” substance really exist? The substance that kills you at touch?
Click to expand...
I think the answer to your question is no. I doubt there is any substance that would kill so rapidly via a percutaneous (ie. absorbed through the skin) exposure.
Of course, there is no end of compounds that would kill us in several seconds if we were to be immersed in a pure vat of it or intravenously injected with high doses. But that cannot be considered a likely natural exposure. We should consider compounds as they might be encountered in reality. In the movie scene in question, the character wasn’t held down and IV injected. This leads me to some of the misunderstandings that have been presented here….''
cosmictraveler said: ↑
There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades
Click to expand...
There are no pathogens that kill any faster than at least a few days, more like a week. Toxins may kill faster but we are still talking about a few days, maybe 24 hours if it’s an extreme exposure. So the mystery agent in the movie cannot be a bio-agent.

kevinalm said: ↑
Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin) ....... Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.
Click to expand...
Organophosphorus nerve agents differ in their volatility and, therefore, present different hazards. The low volatility agents, like VX, present a percutaneous hazard whereas the high volatility agents, like GB, present a vapour hazard.
In either case, nerve agents are not suitable for close-quarters assassination (as per the movie) due to the risk of the assassin exposing themselves to the agent. They are only suitable for large-scale stand-off deployment.''





added on 25th February 2017

Forget the mainstream media scamsters who just copy each other, read where the best info about synthetic toxins can be found.  The  below is just one interesting site.  When you read, you will appreciate why its contributors are anonymous:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/


If you are a scientist (writer, student, or indeed just interested) why not join the forum?
If you are expecting anyone contributing at this website to ever touch base to 'help you out' with your bedroom project, forget it!; unless u want a 'visit' from the FBI!

1.extracted from  anonymous contributors to a Q&A website which simply explain what is going on:

''cosmictraveler said: ↑
''There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades as well as other nasty stuff that will kill upon contact. What those chemicals are isn't known to the ordinary citizen but rest assured they have it.''
''Yes, I knew a scientist from Ft. Detrick in MD who worked on bio weapons (not the anthrax guy, a different guy, retired). He said there was stuff in there where one drop could kill the entire town.''    
 
spidergoat, Jan 4, 2011  
 
 
Eagle9 said: ↑
Q:''So, only a few scientists are aware about their existence in some secret laboratories, right? And any information regarding such “killer” substances are secret, I assume.''

A:"Well, no. Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin). Their chemical structures are well know, as are the means to produce them. A droplet of VX that can barely be seen, (on the order of a mg or less iirc) will kill on contact. You can probably google the chemical formula for it, I know I saw a magazine article that showed the structure and explained the "binary" system for making it about a decade ago. Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.

Then there are several chemicals of biological origin that are quite deadly. Botulin toxin and ricin (spelling?) come to mind. Botulin toxin is one of the deadliest substances known to man. Although most biologicals are proteins and not readily absorbed through the skin."
Eagle9 said: ↑
Pleasant dreams.
Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)
 
Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
kevinalm, Dec 23, 2010





Q: "Mason: What eggzhactly does this shtuff do?

A:"Goodspeed: It's a cholinesterase inhibitor. Stops the brain from sending nerve messages down the spinal cord within thirty seconds. Any epidermal exposure or inhalation and you'll know. A twinge at the small of your back as the poison seizes your nervous system. Your muscles freeze, you can't breathe, and you spasm so hard you break your own back and spit your guts out. But this is after your skin melts off. (The Rock)"

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2006/Macgee/Web Project/nerve_gas.htm     
 Captain Kremmen, Dec 23, 2010
 
A: "Here's another couple of options:
Curare dissolved in DMSO or Highly concentrated Nicotine dissolved in DMSO.

Dissolving something in DMSO is as good as injecting it straight into a persons veins when they touch it - it's absorbed into the skin, then into your bloodstream, carrying any chemicals with it - it's so mobile in the body that when you touch it, it leaves you with a garlicky after taste in your mouth (it get's excreted onto the tongue).

Both Curare and Nicotine will kill in minutes.
Curare leads to asphyxiation and legal death in about 9 minutes, with symptoms occuring instaneously.
Nicotine causes unconsciousness followed by death from as little as one minute to as many as 15 minutes, depending on constitution, and presumably tolerance."    
 Trippy, Jan 4, 2011    
#9 
 
Conium added:
 
''Dimethyl mercury also is readily absorbed through skin (also rubber, latex, PVC etc.), and if anyone touches something smeared with the stuff without immediately rinsing, then the outlook looks really bleak. Not a suitable movie poison though, but pretty horrific anyway. Unlike nerve gasses mentioned earlier, this one can take months before serious symptoms show up, and when it does, it's too late. But doesn't work for a action movie.

This happened, tragically, to a chemistry professor in the 90's. She spilled a few drops of the stuff from a pipette onto her latex gloved hand.
Five months after the exposure, the neurological symptoms (loss of balance, slurred speech etc.) became apparent and she was admitted to the hospital, and there it was discovered that she had serious mercury poisoning.
From there on it just escalated downhill, and within a few weeks she went into a coma for ca five months until she died. By the time it was discovered, the damage was irreversible.

Basically, dimethyl mercury is a very bioavailable form of mercury which will kill you if you even touch it with gloves, but slowly over the course of months with all the muscular/neurological agony and degradation characteristic of heavy metal poisoning.''

I'll pick VX over DM-Mercury any day.
 Conium, Jan 4, 2011
 
 
Scarymonster added (without evidential data, so research for yourself!):
 
1957: 48 tons of lewisite were dumped off the coast of New Jersey.

1967 - 4,577 tons of mustard agent and 7,380 M55 sarin were dumped.

1968 – 38 one-ton containers of sarin gas and VX nerve gas were dumped,

1968 – 1,460 vaults of M55 sarin gas and VX rockets and 120 drums of arsenic and cyanide canisters.
 
ScaryMonster, Jan 5, 2011

 


“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.


That bit is correct.


Wrong. Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.


Not really. Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.


That’s correct. Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion.


Nonsense.


The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''

Hercules Rockefeller said: ↑
“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.
.......Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.........Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.......Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion. Nonsense..........The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''


Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


ScaryMonster said: ↑
''Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


1957: 48 tons of lewisite were dumped off the coast of New Jersey.

1967 - 4,577 tons of mustard agent and 7,380 M55 sarin were dumped.

1968 – 38 one-ton containers of sarin gas and VX nerve gas were dumped,

1968 – 1,460 vaults of M55 sarin gas and VX rockets and 120 drums of arsenic and cyanide canisters.
Click to expand...
You're shitting me. They dumped the most dangerous chemical agents in the world IN THE SEA? ''
 Communist Hamster, Jan 21, 2011

PE:
If you are not yet totally scared to death...and your heart has not yet stopped from  the sheer shock at what you read above, there's much more to come...........visit.........

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/

PE:
If you are a scientist (writer, student, or indeed just interested) why not join the forum?
If you are expecting anyone contributing at this website to ever touch base to 'help you out' with your 'bedroom project', forget it!; unless u want a 'visit' from the FBI (!)
 
Posted by at

Sunday, 19 February 2017

The Strange Demise Of Kim Jong Nam Half Brother of
Kim Jong Un
Leader of North Korea


(edited version)

Speculation

The toxicological report is not yet available but I would not at all be surprised if it should read:

'death was caused by sudden pulmonary embolism' or 'sudden pericardial
effusion caused by substance or substances as yet undetermined.'

I say the above because having had some knowledge, through research, about how such assassins operate, sadly, it is all too easy to 'silently' kill – and there are absolutely no safeguards any country can put in place to prevent such an assassination now nor in the immediate future.

(That is something the general media will not frighten you with!)

I could go even further and say how powerless Border Agencies (Immigration Officers at airports) are to prevent such happenings.

There are synthetic toxins which will not register on any current devices in use even at the most advanced airports in the world.

Indeed, if it were to be known, Immigration and Baggage Check Officers in the normal course of their duties, unless they are wearing full biohazard suits and protective gear, could very well be the (unintentional) first victims should they have the misfortune to 'stop' the 'wrong' suspect for a routine baggage check. [The check itself would prove negative but the officer involved is likely to succumb to a 'fatal' or 'near fatal' 'illness' (cause undetermined) depending on the efficiency of medical treatment, within a very short period of time, but long after the suspect has departed the airport.]

This was a very quick acting toxin.   I have my own ideas.

[Read my blog about viruses to get an appreciation about or around what might have been happening.  All of the above is pure speculation however.]



Malaysian Police Authorities

I do not want to prejudice any enquiries but the Malaysian Police are somewhat out of their depth here and should invite specialists from a 'neutral' country who are 'experts' in these areas – such as Great Britain, Bulgaria or indeed Russia. They might even consider the assistance of countries such as India or China who have the specialist knowledge and skills to assist here.

My concern is that perfectly innocent people who happened to be caught up in the locus will be convicted of what appears to have been a very sophisticated assassination – where nothing is at it appears to be.



Clandestine Operations

Are likely to also become a key feature of the Trump administration with little to no accountability either to Congress nor the American public.

Successes will be announced and claimed by Trump whereas Americans taken prisoner or killed will be forgotten. Welcome to Donald Trump's 'reality' world – where 'losers' (captured or wounded U.S. personnel) are forgotten or left behind to be tortured or rot to death in some far away land. (This contrasts with the ethics and principles of loyalty, service to country, justice and 'nobody left behind nor forgotten' which are (or had been) cornerstones of faith in America's democratic process and the aspirations both U.S. Citizens and new immigrants have had for a better, more just, fairer and secure life in America.)

The problem for Trump here is that if you live by the 'clandestine' sword of unaccountability you may very well perish by it.



Back to Malaysia

I await the toxicological report on Kim Jong Nam with interest – but I am concerned that Malaysia, out of national pride, might decide to 'go it alone' on this one – ignoring assistance from countries with hundreds of years of experience of such matters.


©Patrick Emek, February 2017



So how did I guess it was a synthetic toxin?
Well read the following:


''Eagle9 said: ↑
the agent following The Jackal (Bruce Willis) touches manually the automobile covered with some mysterious substance (The Jackal sprayed this substance to the automobile’s surface) and almost immediately dies. I wonder, does such “killer” substance really exist? The substance that kills you at touch?
Click to expand...
I think the answer to your question is no. I doubt there is any substance that would kill so rapidly via a percutaneous (ie. absorbed through the skin) exposure.
Of course, there is no end of compounds that would kill us in several seconds if we were to be immersed in a pure vat of it or intravenously injected with high doses. But that cannot be considered a likely natural exposure. We should consider compounds as they might be encountered in reality. In the movie scene in question, the character wasn’t held down and IV injected. This leads me to some of the misunderstandings that have been presented here….''
cosmictraveler said: ↑
There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades
Click to expand...
There are no pathogens that kill any faster than at least a few days, more like a week. Toxins may kill faster but we are still talking about a few days, maybe 24 hours if it’s an extreme exposure. So the mystery agent in the movie cannot be a bio-agent.

kevinalm said: ↑
Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin) ....... Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.
Click to expand...
Organophosphorus nerve agents differ in their volatility and, therefore, present different hazards. The low volatility agents, like VX, present a percutaneous hazard whereas the high volatility agents, like GB, present a vapour hazard.
In either case, nerve agents are not suitable for close-quarters assassination (as per the movie) due to the risk of the assassin exposing themselves to the agent. They are only suitable for large-scale stand-off deployment.''





added on 25th February 2017

Forget the mainstream media scamsters who just copy each other, read where the best info about synthetic toxins can be found.  The  below is just one interesting site.  When you read, you will appreciate why its contributors are anonymous:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/


If you are a scientist (writer, student, or indeed just interested) why not join the forum?
If you are expecting anyone contributing at this website to ever touch base to 'help you out' with your bedroom project, forget it!; unless u want a 'visit' from the FBI!

1.extracted from  anonymous contributors to a Q&A website which simply explain what is going on:

''cosmictraveler said: ↑
''There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades as well as other nasty stuff that will kill upon contact. What those chemicals are isn't known to the ordinary citizen but rest assured they have it.''
''Yes, I knew a scientist from Ft. Detrick in MD who worked on bio weapons (not the anthrax guy, a different guy, retired). He said there was stuff in there where one drop could kill the entire town.''    
 
spidergoat, Jan 4, 2011  
 
 
Eagle9 said: ↑
Q:''So, only a few scientists are aware about their existence in some secret laboratories, right? And any information regarding such “killer” substances are secret, I assume.''

A:"Well, no. Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin). Their chemical structures are well know, as are the means to produce them. A droplet of VX that can barely be seen, (on the order of a mg or less iirc) will kill on contact. You can probably google the chemical formula for it, I know I saw a magazine article that showed the structure and explained the "binary" system for making it about a decade ago. Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.

Then there are several chemicals of biological origin that are quite deadly. Botulin toxin and ricin (spelling?) come to mind. Botulin toxin is one of the deadliest substances known to man. Although most biologicals are proteins and not readily absorbed through the skin."
Eagle9 said: ↑
Pleasant dreams.
Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)
 
Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
kevinalm, Dec 23, 2010





Q: "Mason: What eggzhactly does this shtuff do?

A:"Goodspeed: It's a cholinesterase inhibitor. Stops the brain from sending nerve messages down the spinal cord within thirty seconds. Any epidermal exposure or inhalation and you'll know. A twinge at the small of your back as the poison seizes your nervous system. Your muscles freeze, you can't breathe, and you spasm so hard you break your own back and spit your guts out. But this is after your skin melts off. (The Rock)"

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2006/Macgee/Web Project/nerve_gas.htm     
 Captain Kremmen, Dec 23, 2010
 
A: "Here's another couple of options:
Curare dissolved in DMSO or Highly concentrated Nicotine dissolved in DMSO.

Dissolving something in DMSO is as good as injecting it straight into a persons veins when they touch it - it's absorbed into the skin, then into your bloodstream, carrying any chemicals with it - it's so mobile in the body that when you touch it, it leaves you with a garlicky after taste in your mouth (it get's excreted onto the tongue).

Both Curare and Nicotine will kill in minutes.
Curare leads to asphyxiation and legal death in about 9 minutes, with symptoms occuring instaneously.
Nicotine causes unconsciousness followed by death from as little as one minute to as many as 15 minutes, depending on constitution, and presumably tolerance."    
 Trippy, Jan 4, 2011    
#9 
 
Conium added:
 
''Dimethyl mercury also is readily absorbed through skin (also rubber, latex, PVC etc.), and if anyone touches something smeared with the stuff without immediately rinsing, then the outlook looks really bleak. Not a suitable movie poison though, but pretty horrific anyway. Unlike nerve gasses mentioned earlier, this one can take months before serious symptoms show up, and when it does, it's too late. But doesn't work for a action movie.

This happened, tragically, to a chemistry professor in the 90's. She spilled a few drops of the stuff from a pipette onto her latex gloved hand.
Five months after the exposure, the neurological symptoms (loss of balance, slurred speech etc.) became apparent and she was admitted to the hospital, and there it was discovered that she had serious mercury poisoning.
From there on it just escalated downhill, and within a few weeks she went into a coma for ca five months until she died. By the time it was discovered, the damage was irreversible.

Basically, dimethyl mercury is a very bioavailable form of mercury which will kill you if you even touch it with gloves, but slowly over the course of months with all the muscular/neurological agony and degradation characteristic of heavy metal poisoning.''

I'll pick VX over DM-Mercury any day.
 Conium, Jan 4, 2011
 
 
Scarymonster added (without evidential data, so research for yourself!):
 
1957: 48 tons of lewisite were dumped off the coast of New Jersey.

1967 - 4,577 tons of mustard agent and 7,380 M55 sarin were dumped.

1968 – 38 one-ton containers of sarin gas and VX nerve gas were dumped,

1968 – 1,460 vaults of M55 sarin gas and VX rockets and 120 drums of arsenic and cyanide canisters.
 
ScaryMonster, Jan 5, 2011

 

“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.

That bit is correct.

Wrong. Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.

Not really. Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.

That’s correct. Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion.

Nonsense.

The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''

Hercules Rockefeller said: ↑
“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.
.......Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.........Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.......Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion. Nonsense..........The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''

 If you are a scientist (writer, student, or indeed just interested) why not join the forum?
If you are expecting anyone contributing at this website to ever touch base to 'help you out' with your bedroom project, forget it!; unless u want a 'visit' from the FBI!
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


ScaryMonster said: ↑
''Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


1957: 48 tons of lewisite were dumped off the coast of New Jersey.

1967 - 4,577 tons of mustard agent and 7,380 M55 sarin were dumped.

1968 – 38 one-ton containers of sarin gas and VX nerve gas were dumped,

1968 – 1,460 vaults of M55 sarin gas and VX rockets and 120 drums of arsenic and cyanide canisters.
Click to expand...
You're shitting me. They dumped the most dangerous chemical agents in the world IN THE SEA? ''
 
Communist Hamster, Jan 21, 2011


If you are not yet totally scared to death...and your heart has not yet stopped from  the sheer shock at what you read above, there's much more to come...........visit.........

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/
 

Posted by at
The Strange Demise Of Kim Jong Nam Half Brother of
Kim Jong Un
Leader of North Korea


(edited version)

Speculation

The toxicological report is not yet available but I would not at all be surprised if it should read:

'death was caused by sudden pulmonary embolism' or 'sudden pericardial
effusion caused by substance or substances as yet undetermined.'

I say the above because having had some knowledge, through research, about how such assassins operate, sadly, it is all too easy to 'silently' kill – and there are absolutely no safeguards any country can put in place to prevent such an assassination now nor in the immediate future.

(That is something the general media will not frighten you with!)

I could go even further and say how powerless Border Agencies (Immigration Officers at airports) are to prevent such happenings.

There are synthetic toxins which will not register on any current devices in use even at the most advanced airports in the world.

Indeed, if it were to be known, Immigration and Baggage Check Officers in the normal course of their duties, unless they are wearing full biohazard suits and protective gear, could very well be the (unintentional) first victims should they have the misfortune to 'stop' the 'wrong' suspect for a routine baggage check. [The check itself would prove negative but the officer involved is likely to succumb to a 'fatal' or 'near fatal' 'illness' (cause undetermined) depending on the efficiency of medical treatment, within a very short period of time, but long after the suspect has departed the airport.]

This was a very quick acting toxin.   I have my own ideas.

[Read my blog about viruses to get an appreciation about or around what might have been happening.  All of the above is pure speculation however.]



Malaysian Police Authorities

I do not want to prejudice any enquiries but the Malaysian Police are somewhat out of their depth here and should invite specialists from a 'neutral' country who are 'experts' in these areas – such as Great Britain, Bulgaria or indeed Russia. They might even consider the assistance of countries such as India or China who have the specialist knowledge and skills to assist here.

My concern is that perfectly innocent people who happened to be caught up in the locus will be convicted of what appears to have been a very sophisticated assassination – where nothing is at it appears to be.



Clandestine Operations

Are likely to also become a key feature of the Trump administration with little to no accountability either to Congress nor the American public.

Successes will be announced and claimed by Trump whereas Americans taken prisoner or killed will be forgotten. Welcome to Donald Trump's 'reality' world – where 'losers' (captured or wounded U.S. personnel) are forgotten or left behind to be tortured or rot to death in some far away land. (This contrasts with the ethics and principles of loyalty, service to country, justice and 'nobody left behind nor forgotten' which are (or had been) cornerstones of faith in America's democratic process and the aspirations both U.S. Citizens and new immigrants have had for a better, more just, fairer and secure life in America.)

The problem for Trump here is that if you live by the 'clandestine' sword of unaccountability you may very well perish by it.



Back to Malaysia

I await the toxicological report on Kim Jong Nam with interest – but I am concerned that Malaysia, out of national pride, might decide to 'go it alone' on this one – ignoring assistance from countries with hundreds of years of experience of such matters.


©Patrick Emek, February 2017



So how did I guess it was a synthetic toxin?
Well read the following:


''Eagle9 said: ↑
the agent following The Jackal (Bruce Willis) touches manually the automobile covered with some mysterious substance (The Jackal sprayed this substance to the automobile’s surface) and almost immediately dies. I wonder, does such “killer” substance really exist? The substance that kills you at touch?
Click to expand...
I think the answer to your question is no. I doubt there is any substance that would kill so rapidly via a percutaneous (ie. absorbed through the skin) exposure.
Of course, there is no end of compounds that would kill us in several seconds if we were to be immersed in a pure vat of it or intravenously injected with high doses. But that cannot be considered a likely natural exposure. We should consider compounds as they might be encountered in reality. In the movie scene in question, the character wasn’t held down and IV injected. This leads me to some of the misunderstandings that have been presented here….''
cosmictraveler said: ↑
There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades
Click to expand...
There are no pathogens that kill any faster than at least a few days, more like a week. Toxins may kill faster but we are still talking about a few days, maybe 24 hours if it’s an extreme exposure. So the mystery agent in the movie cannot be a bio-agent.

kevinalm said: ↑
Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin) ....... Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.
Click to expand...
Organophosphorus nerve agents differ in their volatility and, therefore, present different hazards. The low volatility agents, like VX, present a percutaneous hazard whereas the high volatility agents, like GB, present a vapour hazard.
In either case, nerve agents are not suitable for close-quarters assassination (as per the movie) due to the risk of the assassin exposing themselves to the agent. They are only suitable for large-scale stand-off deployment.''





added on 25th February 2017

Forget the mainstream media scamsters who just copy each other, read where the best info about synthetic toxins can be found.  The  below is just one interesting site.  When you read, you will appreciate why its contributors are anonymous:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/


If you are a scientist (writer, student, or indeed just interested) why not join the forum?
If you are expecting anyone contributing at this website to ever touch base to 'help you out' with your bedroom project, forget it!; unless u want a 'visit' from the FBI!

1.extracted from  anonymous contributors to a Q&A website which simply explain what is going on:

''cosmictraveler said: ↑
''There are some substances that will kill upon contact. The army has been making germ warfare agents for decades as well as other nasty stuff that will kill upon contact. What those chemicals are isn't known to the ordinary citizen but rest assured they have it.''
''Yes, I knew a scientist from Ft. Detrick in MD who worked on bio weapons (not the anthrax guy, a different guy, retired). He said there was stuff in there where one drop could kill the entire town.''    
 
spidergoat, Jan 4, 2011  
 
 
Eagle9 said: ↑
Q:''So, only a few scientists are aware about their existence in some secret laboratories, right? And any information regarding such “killer” substances are secret, I assume.''

A:"Well, no. Two of the most deadly synthetic chemicals known are military agents VX and GB (sarin). Their chemical structures are well know, as are the means to produce them. A droplet of VX that can barely be seen, (on the order of a mg or less iirc) will kill on contact. You can probably google the chemical formula for it, I know I saw a magazine article that showed the structure and explained the "binary" system for making it about a decade ago. Both VX and GB are readily absorbed through the skin.

Then there are several chemicals of biological origin that are quite deadly. Botulin toxin and ricin (spelling?) come to mind. Botulin toxin is one of the deadliest substances known to man. Although most biologicals are proteins and not readily absorbed through the skin."
Eagle9 said: ↑
Pleasant dreams.
Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)
 
Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
kevinalm, Dec 23, 2010





Q: "Mason: What eggzhactly does this shtuff do?

A:"Goodspeed: It's a cholinesterase inhibitor. Stops the brain from sending nerve messages down the spinal cord within thirty seconds. Any epidermal exposure or inhalation and you'll know. A twinge at the small of your back as the poison seizes your nervous system. Your muscles freeze, you can't breathe, and you spasm so hard you break your own back and spit your guts out. But this is after your skin melts off. (The Rock)"

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2006/Macgee/Web Project/nerve_gas.htm     
 Captain Kremmen, Dec 23, 2010
 
A: "Here's another couple of options:
Curare dissolved in DMSO or Highly concentrated Nicotine dissolved in DMSO.

Dissolving something in DMSO is as good as injecting it straight into a persons veins when they touch it - it's absorbed into the skin, then into your bloodstream, carrying any chemicals with it - it's so mobile in the body that when you touch it, it leaves you with a garlicky after taste in your mouth (it get's excreted onto the tongue).

Both Curare and Nicotine will kill in minutes.
Curare leads to asphyxiation and legal death in about 9 minutes, with symptoms occuring instaneously.
Nicotine causes unconsciousness followed by death from as little as one minute to as many as 15 minutes, depending on constitution, and presumably tolerance."    
 Trippy, Jan 4, 2011    
#9 
 
Conium added:
 
''Dimethyl mercury also is readily absorbed through skin (also rubber, latex, PVC etc.), and if anyone touches something smeared with the stuff without immediately rinsing, then the outlook looks really bleak. Not a suitable movie poison though, but pretty horrific anyway. Unlike nerve gasses mentioned earlier, this one can take months before serious symptoms show up, and when it does, it's too late. But doesn't work for a action movie.

This happened, tragically, to a chemistry professor in the 90's. She spilled a few drops of the stuff from a pipette onto her latex gloved hand.
Five months after the exposure, the neurological symptoms (loss of balance, slurred speech etc.) became apparent and she was admitted to the hospital, and there it was discovered that she had serious mercury poisoning.
From there on it just escalated downhill, and within a few weeks she went into a coma for ca five months until she died. By the time it was discovered, the damage was irreversible.

Basically, dimethyl mercury is a very bioavailable form of mercury which will kill you if you even touch it with gloves, but slowly over the course of months with all the muscular/neurological agony and degradation characteristic of heavy metal poisoning.''

I'll pick VX over DM-Mercury any day.
 Conium, Jan 4, 2011
 
 
Scarymonster added (without evidential data, so research for yourself!):
 
1957: 48 tons of lewisite were dumped off the coast of New Jersey.

1967 - 4,577 tons of mustard agent and 7,380 M55 sarin were dumped.

1968 – 38 one-ton containers of sarin gas and VX nerve gas were dumped,

1968 – 1,460 vaults of M55 sarin gas and VX rockets and 120 drums of arsenic and cyanide canisters.
 
ScaryMonster, Jan 5, 2011

 

“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.

That bit is correct.

Wrong. Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.

Not really. Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.

That’s correct. Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion.

Nonsense.

The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''

Hercules Rockefeller said: ↑
“The Rock” is a mostly appalling depiction of nerve agent toxicology.
.......Nerve agents do not kill in seconds. Given the available dissemination technology and limitations of the chemicals, a realistic very high-dose exposure might kill in several minutes at the very quickest. A more realistic time would be several hours. A medium dose exposure might cause fatality in a few days.........Skeletal muscle first displays fasciculation (twitches) due to hyperactivaton of acetylcholine receptors, then later flaccid paralysis due to hyperpolarisation of the receptors. Smooth muscle either adversely contracts or relaxes (causing internal organ malfunctions) depending on whether the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system is involved. CNS effects can cause seizures.......Lung function is paralyszed and the trachea fills due to hypersecretion. Nonsense..........The worst bit of fantasy nonsense in the whole film! ''

 If you are a scientist (writer, student, or indeed just interested) why not join the forum?
If you are expecting anyone contributing at this website to ever touch base to 'help you out' with your bedroom project, forget it!; unless u want a 'visit' from the FBI!
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


ScaryMonster said: ↑
''Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


1957: 48 tons of lewisite were dumped off the coast of New Jersey.

1967 - 4,577 tons of mustard agent and 7,380 M55 sarin were dumped.

1968 – 38 one-ton containers of sarin gas and VX nerve gas were dumped,

1968 – 1,460 vaults of M55 sarin gas and VX rockets and 120 drums of arsenic and cyanide canisters.
Click to expand...
You're shitting me. They dumped the most dangerous chemical agents in the world IN THE SEA? ''
 
Communist Hamster, Jan 21, 2011


If you are not yet totally scared to death...and your heart has not yet stopped from  the sheer shock at what you read above, there's much more to come...........visit.........

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-substance-that-kills-at-touch.105614/
 
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